Heavy Bolters, is there a point?

Quiet day here as finals begin for the University...  And it is a "No Change" period for IT, so more or less just sit tight and hope nothing major breaks...

Got me thinking about Heavy Bolters though...  Mind, I've been using them since RT, and in the ancient times they were certainly weapons to fear or at least respect.  150 points bought you the Imperial Army's 10 man Squad with 5 Heavy Bolters, I can't remember what the Squat Thunderers were, but I think they were sub 100 points for the 5 Squat Squad of all Heavy Bolters...  The change went from "keep firing until you miss or fail to wound" to 1 die for the rate of fire...  "Special" d6, jam on 1 face 2x1, 2x2 1x3, so 1-3 hits averaging in the 1.5-2 hits...  Oh, and it was Str 5 -3 save modifier, so the vaunted 3+ save Powered Armor (with flak in the old rules) went to a 6+ save...  Not so good if you were a Marine really...  Now it is Heavy 3, so three shots at least.  Not horrible, but then the 3+ to wound most things followed by the 3+ save or the 3-4++  cover save and in some cases then the FnP save...  I just do not see them killing enough really to justify a large points investment.

Yes, the new rules DO allow me to move and snap fire, and I can keep specific models not moving so Heavy Weapons overall are a bit better...  And on the odd chance they snap fire into something Charging me, that might be nice too, but...  Nothing to count on I think...

The Marine Scout one IS cheap(ish) and has the optional fire mode where they throw out a small blast template, wounding on a 2+...  So at least against a lot of things I CAN throw out a wound or so...  'course, most of the really nasty things like that also have good saves and multiple wounds and I get one HB/Squad there...  NOT so effective, might get me a snip kill combined with Sniper Rifles, but even then...  "Eh", in almost all cases the Missile Launcher is at least as good, mostly better.  So, "Neat", but still I'd consider it a failure...  I happen to HAVE a half dozen of the damn things, so likely continue to field them in my CF army, but...

For the IG the situation is similar, but...  In a HW Squad 5 points buys me either a Heavy Bolter or an Auto Cannon.  Heavy 3 vs Heavy 2, 36" range vs 48" and Str 5 vs Str 7...  I hate saying it is a no brainer, but the Auto Cannon just seems better all around.  Higher range, better Str so CAN actually pose a threat to vehicles heavier than AV 10-11...  Really only loses RoF, and that is I think OK given the extra 12" range and STR.

Sponson mounts I can see just to add weight of fire.  But, really?  15 points in some cases for a weapon that has to be fired at the same target as the main guns?  Eh might be an overstatement except for the Valkyrie/Vendetta with the Flier rules allowing 4 weapons to be fired as normal...  I guess if I have points to spare and need an anti horde option...

Otherwise, Marine Dev Squads?  Anyone actually field these?  I certainly wouldn't...  Long Fangs are not bad and I bring one or two HBs to allow them to split fire and take down Infantry targets and to be frankly "red shirts" for the rest of the Pack...  These are the first losses, nothing personal :-)...  On my Attack Bikes? Maybe, if points are short for the Armies it makes a difference, but frankly with the Multi Melta being an option, again why bother asking?

Got to say, the Heavy Bolter was one thing I was hoping would get changed with the new edition, but it remains more in the "why bother" bin.  Anyone else have anything I am missing here?

Rambling and caffeinated...

OTOH, LOVING the Google Nexus 7 tablet...  Easy to carry around and does almost everything I need to so on a mobile platform...

The repainting project continues...

Well, it looks like I get through about 15-16 things before I get tired of it :-)....  Well, 30 pairs of boots last night.  And the irony of that many boots being done by someone who spent 8 years playing Army and successfully avoiding shining boots...  Being in a line combat unit, this was NOT important at all.

I had also forgotten that each Platoon could have 5 Heavy Weapon Squads...  And realizing just how many Heavy Weapons I actually have...  Could be completely useless, but planning on bringing at least one Mortar Squad, one Heavy Bolter Squad and one Las Cannon Squad to go with my standard Missile Launchers  Mortars I figure will just sit on a back edge and be annoying.  Heavy Bolters will just throw out the 9 shots/turn, figure they will be a low priority target for a lot of the people I play against...  Well, at least until I get around to converting them to Autocannons...  Guessing the AC will be far better than the Heavy Bolters. But then I only have 3 of them I think, and they're in the line Platoon...

Still need a way around the low LD for them to get orders, so the Lord Commissar might be making an appearance should we go over 1500 points...

Finally a few pictures...

Stole the wife's phone for a bit :-)  Thinking this month is the time to upgrade my POS phone, and the one she has is nice...  Though have to admit I am spoiled by my Nexus 7's ease of use and inter-operability with my computers...  But in any case a few of the "work in progress" shots...

Not great pictures, and I'll have to get some with the zoom to see if I can capture some actual detail.  The SGT with the light green base is one I base coated a year or so back the last time I cycled through my "Zulu" phase.  Have to say, after the basecoat, the Minwax and Matte spray really changes it from a "eh" paint job to something that at least looks good on the table.  So, just another 80+ to go :-)

Oh, and repainting almost all of my Vehicles...  From the ancient RT era "Death Chicken" class Sentinels to the various AFVs...  Ogres as well probably.  I know they are not popular in various internet blogs, but locally, having a good, solid "Linebacker" unit is really nice to have...  But once I get all of my Heavy Weapon Squads painted up (yes, I still have blisters of them), might drop them for a straight "we just shoot things" army...

Repainting Praetorians...

Keep forgetting to take a camera or my phone downstairs...  Stripped and repainting the lads.  My first squad is done with the base coat and going with the "dipped" method.  Kind of like the Army Painter stuff, but using the Minwax and a Matte spray...  Saying that, growing up in the 80's, the Matte spray is hair spray of course :-)

Have to say the lads are turning out pretty darn nicely, certainly compared to their original "hey, it has 3 colors" paint for RTT's back in the 3rd edition era...  I know I had 2 Leman Russ tanks at one point, but have only found one so far...  Looking at snagging a 1/32 scale Lee/Grant to see how close it is...  Might end up modifying them if they are close.  Also looking at getting one of the Airships I was working on a while back made with some of the wood and the shop in Psych...  Might work out, at least be a VERY different Valkyrie/Vendetta...  Going with a WWII American paint scheme for the vehicles I think...

Praetorians next?

Back to painting something different for a while I think...  Back to one of my ancient armies.  Might even get a bunch of them FULLY painted as the "base coat" has taken 15 years :-)...

:-)  So, back to some of my ancient IG...See how long before I get absolutely sick of painting the same figure over and over...  But the Light Rifle Company concept I think will be a fairly powerful one in this edition, provided I support it well.  And the IG codex is insanely customizable and VERY powerful if you feel like going in a specific direction.  Me, I was always a fan of heavy weapons and Artillery.  Never did server in the Artillery, but I did a fair amount of the "Call For Fire" as an NCO in a line combat company...  So, unsurprisingly I have a fair idea HOW to use Artillery, Tank support and combined arms tactics...

Got in on the Kickstarter for the Stormtroopers (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dreamforge-games/something-wicked-this-way-comes-crusader-plastic-m) here, so I have some what I hope are good "stand in" models for my Veterans and Storm-troopers...  So at the very least I will have something completely different to paint, when they arrive at least :-)...

Looking at repainting the vehicles I have from the "sand" scheme I have for most of them to something different...  Might have to go for something "brown-violet" and make them look like WWII American vehicles...  We'll see I guess...

Wow, Crimson Fists for the Win...

Wound up on table one against Mark's really annoyingly tough IG army to determine first/second for the Tournament...  Have to admit I was a bit surprised, I somehow skirted my "bad" matchups and by playing hyper aggressive I think I surprised the Danville players.  They really didn't expect the Drop Pods full of scoring Sternguard dropping right on top of them, and the Thunderfire Cannons are just REALLY effective against Infantry based Armies...

Game one I played against Noah's IG force, but it was at the 500 point level...  Sternguard dropped in, got "First Blood" by offing his Platoon Command Squad before dying...  Was the game winner for me.

Game 2 I wound up against a Tyranid force @ 1000 points with a Swarmlord, Flying Tyrant, Tyrvagon (?  Spawns more termigaunts), a few other things...  Had 2 full Scouts Squads (one sniper, one HtH/Shotgun), Thunderfire and the 2 Sternguard Squads (5 man each) with Pedro Kantor.  I think had the Tyranid player played it a bit more aggressively, I would have been wiped out.  My reserves waited until turn 4 to arrive, so it was a hard fight...  Surprisingly I did a LOT of damage with what I had though, so when the second wave hit, they claimed an objective and killed the Swarmlord getting me to a draw with a LOT of things killed...  Well, dead Tyranids at least.  I had surprisingly few casualties given the army I was facing.  Thinking back more on it, I REALLY think that had he moved up to engage early, I would have been wiped out before my reserves arrived.  But the Draw was enough to advance me, keeping me without a loss, and raking in a LOT of tiebreaker points.

Game 3 was a bad matchup for the kid I faced.  He ran a BA/Necron list with a big Fortress setting him back 250-280 points...  So, he was starting down points, and he was REALLY not ready for an army as aggressive as mine.  Having said that, the ORD missile swarm was REALLY powerful.  Not sure it is worth THAT much, but I think I could have used it a lot better...  He also had Mephiston and some big named Necron character, so 3 things that were REALLY expensive and hard to protect.  Drop Pod hit, Heavy Flamer alone almost wiped the min size Necron Troop squad, and took the Cron Lord to a single wound.  Second Sternguard Squad was what killed off Mephiston.  SO many Plasma and Melta shots, and no INV save or Cover save for him...  Unfortunately, I shot off all of my Meltas against Meph and to kill the Las Cannon/Dev Squad...  Building explosion is BRUTAL...  The Dev Squad ate something like 15 STR 6 hits when I melta'd the building they were in...

So, on to the final game on table one...  Mark's IG force ran the field against some of the armies that I could not have dealt easily with in Necron and GK mostly...  OTOH, I could almost guarantee killing a lot of KP if this was what it ended up being or at the least killing off the things he had to hold objectives...  I think this was probably the thing that lost it for him.  Sternguard dropping in with Heavy Flamers meant that the Infantry screen melted.  First Blood, Warlord death  and going up in KP almost immediately meant I more or less needed to be wiped off the field for him to win.  Sniper Scouts had no targets, but they hid and preserved their KP...  Thunderfire Cannon were useless after Turn one, but the Techmarines were huge....  Flamer, TL Plasma Pistol, dual Power Fists?  Works really well...  BUT having said that, I think that this is the last time I field 2 of them...

Got to say, I'm kind of burned out a bit.  Going to take a week or three to see what happens I guess.

Tournament this weekend...

Going to be a strange one...  1500 point list, but the first round is 500 points from this list, next round at 1000 points then third and fourth at 1500 points...  So running my Crimson Fists, the 500 is going to suck in so many ways...  1000 and 1500 at least I have an army I can field a coherent force, the major things I simply cannot deal with are things like heavy flier armies...

Hordes might present a slight challenge, but the dual Thunderfire cannons are insanely powerful against them...  Especially with my ability to target specific things like command squads, specific models...  Dark Eldar are also going to be hard, but I don't think Mike will be there with his vehicle swarm and insane number of saves...

Bringing:

Pedro Kantor
Sternguard Squad (10, HF, 7 Combi Melta, 2 Combi Plasma, SGT w/LC, Drop Pod w/beacon)
Sternguard Squad (10, HF, 6 Combi Melta, 3 Combi Plasma, Drop Pod)
Scout Squad (10, Cloaks, HB, 9 Sniper Rifles)
Scout Squad (10, CCW, Shotguns maybe?)
Thunderfire Cannon
Thunderfire Cannon
Aegis Line w/ Quad Gun

Comes in at 1500 points, might swap the quad for the Las Cannon...  Just the raw killing power might be nice, total lack of long ranged AT firepower.  Also missing the FT's ability to just MOVE.  Jump Troops, Drop Pods, Fast Vehicles, I could move across the field so very quickly, and that was hard for a lot of people to deal with.  This army shoots.  Shoots a LOT, and fairly well...  And has a potential for 8 Scoring squads, not including the Heavies in that one mission...  Stubborn too, so more or less you have to kill them all to get them off of an objective.  Really liking the army so far, just worried about fliers as I have no real answer yet...

Guess we'll see how it turns out, need to finish up some detail work and the like, but pretty ready to go...