1500 Wolf Legion list

So, getting the core of my force ready, playing locally against 30K and 40K forces…  Mostly 40K, but most of the locals are just fine with me running my weird ancient Marine lists.  So, VI Legion (Wolves) but pretty much just a generic setup.

Legion Praetor (Cataphractii Armor, Combi Plasma, Paragon Blade, Pride of the Legion)

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (10, HB, ML w/Flak, SGT in Artificer)

  Rhino

Legion terminator Squad (10 Cataphractii, Reaper, Plasma Blaster, mix of weapons with a CF and LC)

  Spartan (Ceremite)

Mortis DN (2 * TL Las Cannon)

And…

 I had been running the Forge Lord with the Rad Grenades in my 1850 lists, usually with the Siege Breachers, but seems like it makes the Spartan nigh un killable at times.  I like the Apothecary (Medic) in the big squad, so would love to have one in the Cataphractii, so perhaps a Primus Medicae?  Honestly I’m not really sure what else to do with the 200 or so points…  Any thoughts?  Thinking that 1850+ is the place to play Legion lists…

Finally some model work...

Finally got in a bit of work on my armies...  5 Siege Breachers and 5 Cataphractii Terminator suits assembled tonight...  No pictures or anything, but getting used to using the wine corks Maggie gave me to hold the figures as I paint them.  The Spartan is getting cleaned up, next to assemble it.

Snowed in, so no League tomorrow.

Legion List at 1500...

So, with the League running at 1500 points, I will give these lads a try...  Using the "Pride of the Legion" Rite of War making Terminators and Veteran Squads Troops (Mandatory 2 at least).  The disadvantage being that if I lose ALL of my Vet/Terminators, I give up an extra VP.  But at 1500, I might well have only the two squads, so getting wiped out I've already lost...  Not a real disadvantage as far as I can see.  And with the FAQ giving the unit with Sniper rule wounding on 4+, Rending, picking Targets...  

Legion Praetor (Cataphracti Armor, Paragon Blade, Combi Plasma)

Veteran Tactical Squad (Missile Launcher with Suspensor and maybe Flak?, loads of Bolters otherwise), SGT with Artificer, attach a Medic?

  Rhino w/Havoc Launcher ?  Maybe...

Terminator Squad (10, mix of weapons)

  Spartan Transport, Cermite)

And...  Mkay, that comes to 1200 or so points...  Maybe a Mortis class DN for the Wolves?  The Las Cannon option is pretty powerful...  Maybe keep the Forge Lord and maybe try out the Medic?

Not sure, the Void Shield Generators in the Siege book seem pretty darn good... Thinking they might well be the one thing that stops fliers and the superheavies...  So may well be something that becomes semi required...  Will have to come up with some terrain to become a Shield Generator...

Stronghold Assault ideas...

So, looking at the Stronghold Assault book…  The Bastion got a LOT better with the ability to bring a Void Shield.  So, Icarus Las Cannon and the Quad gun both look good, and the new book has a “Fortification Network” which counts as a single Fortification.  1-3 Bastions, 1-5 Aegis lines, 0-1 Skyshield…  So a Bastion and an Aegis, each with an AA gun of some kind for the single “Fortification” slot choice.  So 75 for the Bastion, 25 for the Void Shield, 35 for the Icarus combined with the 50 for the Aegis and 50 for the Quad Gun.  235 points, so NOT cheap.  But it would I think be survivable for the people inside.  

My Crimson Fists with Tank Hunter would be brutal, even my Wolves with Long Fangs would be a very hard strong point to remove quickly…  Especially with Grey Hunters providing building security…  And with the “Behind Enemy Lines” saying they can come out from ANY board edge, that would include my own if my own lines get crashed…  So, I guess this becomes my AAA option for armies that do not otherwise have such options.  Thinking that I can go complete overkill with a Legion list and bring the Heavy Support Squad with Missile Launchers and Flak missiles. Would be a way to sweep the sky against the Necron/chaos air force army…  And not be totally useless otherwise…  Just not nearly so much so against the Tau MC lists…

So, my painting of Wolves goes slowly with Christmas and the like taking priority...  Spartan is on-hand now, so I need to assemble it and paint it up in my VI Legion colors such as they are (Grey with Bronze/Red trim).  Stripping and repainting a lot of old Lead figs, manufacturing Shields for use as Siege Breachers...  So a VERY Legion specific unit, but fun to play...  Maybe I'll get to play a game sometime soon...

So, is it 40K version 6.5 now?

So, here we are…  Looking for all the world like the mid-point for 6^th Edition.  Mind, I have no idea how far we really are into the current edition’s life span, but it really is feeling very much like we are at or about “version 6.5”.  The major rule updates coming out in Escalation and Stronghold Assault really ARE game changers.  On one hand, it has the potential to make the game silly/stupid with a Titan backed up with minimal “other” to make a legal army.  Is it bad?  On some levels, yes…  The local game store does not in general sell those things being Armorcast/Forgeworld or DIY/Home Made stuff…  CAN be amazing, beautiful models and has the potential to pull more people into the game…  Or it can look like crap, drive people away and deny sales to the FLGS… 

 I have to admit I am still on the fence about it.  On one hand it does seem like it will have a leveling effect IFF it serves as either an answer or a deterrent to some of the completely legal but horribly abusive lists.  I do not think you will find many people arguing that the “Screamer Star” or the “Jetseer Council” are NOT abusive lists.  They take things to an extreme, and while technically legal have the effect of simply killing all enjoyment of the game.  The same effect that the Grey Knights had on the previous edition I think.  The 4+ giant Monstrous Creature lists including, but by no means limited to the Tau silliness, Eldar mixed or the Flying Circuses of the Tyranids/Chaos.  Simply NOT fun to play against with a “normal” army anymore.  So, where does that leave us?  Everyone HAS to bring the same very small subset of “broken” lists or be relegated to just losing?  In the bigger events, the prize support, etc. makes this a game with money on the table in my opinion.  When there is money on the table, “friendly play” simply does not exist…  Eventually.  Sure, you will occasionally run across the equivalent of the gun toting Amish vigilante, but the reality is that the ones playing the most broken and obnoxious (to those of us who are just there to play a few games) lists are the odds on favorites to win it all.

I know that a group of the larger TOs out there are working to create something in a “Tournament 40K” rule set for lack of a better term.  Mike Brandt over at the “Whiskey & 40K” blog details that here (http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2013/12/better-mission-design-more-proactive.html) …  Will it work?  I don’t know.  I DO wish them luck and hope that it does.  As of right now I have less than zero interest in going to a major event with any army I would like to play.  There are only 2 times I very nearly lost my temper playing a game, once was when I played uber-competitive 40K back in 3^rd Edition.  Would have been very late 2001 or early 2002.  I was just out of the Army a few years, just married, etc., and playing in a RTT up in Joliet.  Wound up playing my Fleshtearers against his IG.  His Tallern IG painted up as Al Qaeda with “Bin Laden” themed and pictured banners…  Kid said he did it just to piss off his opponents…  Worked for me, don’t think I ever played a more brutally effective and vicious game in my life.  See, when I get pissed off, I get far more dangerous.  I was methodical, and to be honest, the BA were horribly broken in that edition, so the kid never really had a chance as I could easily Assault  his army on turn one, and with the Sweeping Assault rules, just keep going.  It was over by the bottom of turn 2, with him being completely wiped from the table.  Got chipmunked on my “Sportsmanship” score, but whatever.  Good thing an old friend of mine was there (Dennis Smith) and was friends with the TOs or it would have really screwed up my score.  So, “Best General” it was, not overall winner…  And that was the last big event I went to. 

I guess I saw where it would go in time.  And let’s be honest, from about the mid-point of 5^th Edition to now it seems that as a competitive game it just does not work.  The ideas about 2 different “Victory Conditions” and giving each player a choice is neat, but….  Well, I’ll wait and see I think.  The old Mob quote to the effect of “Every law they pass just creates more businesses for us” comes to mind.  Seems that we are all acknowledging that there are truly broken things, and to fix them we will introduce more rules and more potential for breaking things further.  NOT the intention of course, and like I said I really do hope that it works out and becomes a fun game again on that level.  This is probably the most frustrating thing about it all…  Forgeworld as part of GW actually I think HAS balanced the “Lords of War” stuff in the Heresy rules…  A single line of “no more than 25% of your points may be spent on this slot”.  And that’s it.  The things with the most potential to break 40K are all too expensive to be 25% of any list size we use in the games we play.  Yeah, doesn't help with what I consider the broken stuff but it combined with say “One Force Org Chart, allies and Detachments must adhere” and the silliness with the Taudar or 3+ Broadsides, etc. all goes away.  Does it hurt game balance?  I don’t know.  But why bother with the FOC or frankly ANY rule if it will not be equally applied for all parties?  Night Fighting is one that irks me now that it is in every mission I think.  Some armies simply ignore it (DE/Tau for the most part), some (Necrons) can cause it to only affect their enemies and for a longer time in the game…  Others still have lost their traditional keen senses that would allow them to deal with the night fight (Wolves)…  With the Wolves, I just feel there is simply no point bringing them to a 40K game unless I do something completely silly like a Bran Redmaw army or the like…  Depend on Behind Enemy Lines and Outflank to get my Wolves in close…  I have tried it before and it was mostly effective, but even still, NO defense against a flier, not much long ranged firepower, dependent on a “Hero Hammer” style of play to be effective.  I always liked how effective my basic Grey Hunters were, now in this edition…  Eh, they are just expensive casualties like the Guard.  But lacking all of the IG advantages. 

J  Guess that is why I started looking at the Legion stuff to be honest…  “This Battle is lost….  But there is time for another”…  The repaint project on my ancient ACTUALLY pre Heresy Wolves continues…  And I am building “Siege Breachers” out of some other Marines I have around to test that…  Needing the full 20 for the real sized Squads would be too expensive otherwise…  Mind, the FW resin are BRILLIANT minis and I’d love to have them…  But things like the broken furnace and other real life issues keep me from spending that kind of money on the game…

So, it is looking like there will be Tournament Ban Lists, etc...

?Looking over what the Feast of Blades folks are going to be the first to enact some of the bans and limits to the new Warhammer 40K environment.  The following is a quote from the 3++ site:

"
1.) The Grimoire of True Names from Codex: Daemons is banned
As of right now, this is the only true banning. We feel there is too much potential for abuse, and disagree with the effect it has on the army and the game.

2.) A few units will receive 0-1 status
For those of you who weren't around when 0-1 was a thing in codecies, means that a maximum of 1 of that unit may be taken per army. These are all units whose mass inclusion limits the potential lists in the game, and will thus be restricted. (As none of them are a problem on their own.) Rest assured that this will be a very short list, we are not interested in creating very restricted armies.

3.) Supplemental Codecies will no longer be able to ally to their base codex
There will be no more self-allying, no more cherry picking the best parts of a supplement while paying none of the costs, and no more force-org bloat from doing so.

4.) Dataslates will take an ally slot
Taking units from many, many different books and ignoring the force organization chart is too much. This change will make dataslates an interesting addition to the game, without allowing for truly bizzare armies.

5.) The number of psychic mastery levels in an army will be limited
This change will eliminate a great many power combos from the game, and will stop a player from making a lot of lucky rolls on the psychic power tables to effectively win the game before it begins.

6.) Strength D is out, Lords of Battle are in
We feel the the Lords of Battle are not overpowered on their own, the fact that they give the opponent some advantages (bonus to seize, and especially victory points) balances out their fearsome firepower and powerful endurance. Strength D, however, is too powerful. This is well-known by every apoc player (and I am one of them), and has been the case for the past two editions. (Yes, it was even overpowered back in 5th, and it was much worse then.) There is some debate still going on, but it looks like S:D will becomeS:10, ordinance, ignores cover. That still makes it very powerful, but more in line with the price paid for the superheavy as well as it's other weapon options. In addition, superheavies will have to start on the table.

7.) Super-forts are gone, or at least downsized
No AV15, it will be AV14 instead. Every individual fortification from Stronghold Assault is allowed, but the “network” choices are simply too big and unwieldy to allow for tournament play. (As a consolation, they're pretty terrible, so I think it's OK.)

8.) Dedicated transport flyers will be limited
Flyers are not the be-all end-all of this edition, but all-flyer and mostly-flyer armies change the meta in uncomfortable ways and are notoriously unfun to play against."

So a fair amount in there...  The big things being the Str D weapons being modified for play...  Probably a good thing overall, especially in concert with the other limits.  D Str was an answer to some of the silliness that abounds in the current unrestricted environment.  Bring the 4 Riptides if you'd like, but know that the first time you face a Revenant class Titan you just lose.   Of course the other limits remove the 4 Riptide list in any case...

Outright ban on one thing.  Not bad really overall...  We have only a single Demons player locally, and she hasn't used this so I have no real familiarity with it.  But given its use in one of the problematic combinations it is likely broken enough to need banning.

So...  That brings me to what I am seeing as a complete lack of play testing by GW.  I always wondered if they were playing the same game that we were over here.  There seems to be a split between complete crap units or even whole books like the Dark Angles or the recent fliers.  Mind, I think that overall the fliers that have been balanced against each other, or at least the ones actually created IN sixth edition.  The ones magically elevated to fliers, specifically the Necron fliers are probably the most difficult ones to justify.  But the ones in sixth like the Eldar ones or Marine Storm Talon have 2 hull points and are generally weaker than a lot of other things.  The recent Codices like Tau that have wholesale rule "exceptions" and the ability to customize your units to the point of list tailoring is pretty over the top. And of course the Eldar and all they can do legally...

I dunno, thinking whatever list comes from the FoB event will get VERY serious consideration locally...  Still digesting the new books...  Some interesting stuff there...  And my Legion stuff is coming along very nicely...  Pipeline from Stronghold book with a Tactical Support Squad w/ Flamers?  So, 9Torrenting Flamer Templates?  Yes please...

Works in progress... Siege Breachers

So, I have only a few actual FW Siege Breachers...  So, Green Stuff it is to modify some of my ancient Marines to become Siege Breachers...

Getting the basic paint scheme up there...  Grey armor, Brass/Copper trim and Red for the Shoulder Pad...  Stripped and repainted lead minis are coming along well.  Using Minwax to seal/give it some depth...  Seems like it is coming along well...