1850 DA, next week...

So, reflecting on last weeks game I think that while making Deathwing and Ravenwing "Troops" is really nice, the 215 points Azrael costs was just way too much to not hit the table.  Yes, I probably played wrong, so I am not totally discounting the usefulness of the Commander...  But having Belial hit the table on turn 1/2 exactly where I want him to be?  And then fighting for the bulk of the game, or at least until he dies :-) makes more sense to me.  Still not 100% sure it is something that will be able to beat things like the Necron Air circus, or the local IG hordes...  More specifically, the AV 14 tanks that are becoming popular locally...  Drop in, get a side shot maybe, hope for Melta/Multi Melta to survive long enough to matter...  Having Terminator armor is nice, but roll enough dice and 1's WILL come up.  Looking at fewer than 30 bodies total for the army at 1850, so those will all hurt.

Looking at:

Belial
Deathwing Squad (10, 2 CML, several TH/SS, probably at least 4)
Deathwing Squad (5, Heavy Flamer, a few TH/SS)
Deathwing Command Squad (Banner of Devastation, Champion, Heavy Flamer)
LRC (NOT a dedicated Transport, but maybe?, Melta, dozer)
Techmarine (Servo, Power Field)
Tactical Squad (5, ML w/Flak)
Ravenwing Squadron (Attack Bike, MM, Melta in Squadron)

I'm NOT sold on using the DW Command Squad over just a regular one, or even dropping that particular aspect altogether.  I'd probably swap out the LRC for a regular LR and hope to roll 6's when shooting at fliers I guess...

I am also kind of building it with the Campaign in mind.  I am facing off against several Chaos forces, including my primary enemy.  I forget my overall Warlord Trait, but in essence, I am hunting him...  Good bonuses for holding territories next to his, and better ones for actually defeating him in a game...  Since I just took a Hive City from him last turn, I'm set up fairly well for that.  And I have a number of "Bastion" spots, giving me free Bastions in games there...  Thinking my small Tac Squad foes there and fires Flak missiles, Heavy Bolters and Quad Gun/Las Cannon at fliers/reserves...  Seeing Rambo, I mean "Marbo" a lot these days in IG forces, so having something to potentially shoot him out of existence is a REALLY nice thing for me...  Getting out of paying the "Aegis Tax" for not bringing fliers...  And since I have yet to actually declare an attack in the Campaign, seems likely someone will try to come and take one of my good spots from me.  Plus side, no Planetstorm silliness attacking my Hive City as it incorporates a Shield Generator...  I could I guess bring extra Heavies or the like, but really not all that impressed with my choices there.

Kind of riffing off of that, my choices of Fliers is extremely limited overall.  Yes, I do have 1+ (the + is the extras I am building as Airships) for the Praetorians, I have a converted Valkyrie to stand in as a Storm Raven for my GK/BA forces...  But, honestly feeling that my IG/GK forces would be overpowered and over represented in our local environment.  My Fleshtearers are brutal.  Not a lot of local players are REALLY prepared for the way I play them.  Adding in a Raven to transport my DC DN and probably an Assault Squad?  Not sure I'd play it if I were not playing a "I'm making a point" Army and just going out to be a complete dick and destroy the opposition as quickly as possible...  So, no, not going to play that force I think...  And the DA fliers just look craptastic on paper.  NOT saying they needed to be "OMG BROKEN" level to have people play them, but really, 180 points for a very lackluster dog-fighter or 160 for a "ground attack" aircraft that is inferior in every way to the IG Valkyrie/Vendetta?  Yes, the IG flier is TOO good, and I don't think they need to make all of them too good, but playing now, I do not often see an army across the table without one of them as an "ally"...  Not the only reason to ally with IG of course, but I can erase blobs, even fearless ones easily enough, the filers are just a PITA...  The current crop of fliers is overall "Eh"...  The Chaos Heldrake is a bit over the top against Powered Armor armies not bringing Transports, but that can be dealt with I think...  The DA/Marine fliers are just a bit confusing to me.  Overpriced garbage.  And limited in which flavor of Marine gets the bloody things?  Not the strategy I would have taken as a business trying to sell more models, but...

Speaking of odd business decisions, rumor has a direct only "flier compendium" coming out in a few weeks.  Now, I am no longer involved in a game store, but I REALLY would much prefer to purchase through my local store as that is where I play, and the owners are friends.  Even without knowing them, the "buy where you play" thing is big for me.  some other stores over the years where there was either no or limited play space or where some/all of our game group were "no longer welcome"...  Well, then buying online was the way I'd go.  If the rumors are correct, barring Dave getting a bunch of orders together and being able to get them in bulk from GW, does not seem that we CAN order through him.  That does not even get me started on the whole releasing broken, silly rules and selling expensive "patches" later on like the liquid Green Stuff and "Finecast"...  Once upon a time, they released updated online as freely downloadable PDF's...  Wouldn't think that would have cost much at all, and would retain a fair number of customers.  To say nothing of the ability to release say, an Eldar tank kit with the rules online so they do not have to wait for the next iteration of the Codex...  :-)  Not that this will happen again...  But kind of frustrating as a player not having "legal" access to the rules for things like the last wave of fliers (Marine/Ork ones) without hunting down a back issue of their advertisement/magazine...  :-)  I guess I am missing the "good old days" a bit, maybe it will all work out...

1850 DA AAR

So, played the "We Shoot Things" list last night against a pretty good Chaos force...  Just going from memory, but this is approximately what he had:

Chaos Lord (Daemon weapon, Juggernaut, 4++ save of some sort, Mark of Khorne)
Chaos Lord (Daemon weapon/Black Mace?, Juggernaut, 4++ save of some sort, Mark of Khorne)
15 Cultists
15 Cultists
2 Predators (AC, 2x LC)
Vindicator
2 Heldrakes (bale flamers)

IG allies
CCS in Chimera (plasma/meltas)
Vet Squad in Chimera (plasma/2 Melta)
Manticore
Vendetta


So, lots of Fliers...

He had first turn and set up for an alpha strike...  I seized.  My bikes that had Scout moved up were in position and ended up winning me the game.  The Attack bike caught the Manticore in the 12" "sweet spot" for the easy kill netting me "First Blood".  The other bikes I had ran as Combat Squadrons so 2 groups of 3. Made my first big mistake when I did not just shoot the first Lord out of existence...  I shot each at one Cultist Squad with the LRC pitching in to wipe the closest one off the table.  I should have pushed the 48 TL Bolter shots all onto the one squad along with the TLAC/MM/etc...  So, killed off all of one and almost all of the other Cultist squads, but I REALLY should have just focused in on the one to kill the Lord.

That brings me to me second big mistake...  I rolled the LRC forward, leaving the Tactical Squads in their cover...  They did move out some trying to keep up, but...  In any case they got strung out and left behind by the uber-tank...

Brings me to the Drakes.  So, they fly "near" something, a wing clipping it maybe, and it's d3+1 Str 7 AP3 hits.  Movement phase, so absolutely NOTHING I as the defending player can do about it.  Not a HtH attack, no opposed rolling, just automatic hits, take the damage and move on.  Then of course there's the 360 degree Torrent Flamer hitting at Str 6 AP 3...  Kind of makes Power Armor completely worthless.  I was planning on running my Wolves at some point, but to be honest I think they'd just die.  FAQ killed the Wolf Scouts completely as the Interceptor Quad Guns are not really as big an issue these days...  Not bringing the Wolf Guard with them means just the 4+ Armor on the Scouts can strike behind the lines, and no Assault out of Reserve so "less useful" to "why bother"...  Seeing a lot of folks getting more and more frustrated with the game, and the "slightly overpowered" flier armies in general...  The now insane prices for the models is not helping, but the rules are really just lagging.  Maybe in a few months it will even out, but it is NOT there right now...

With the DA, I am left feeling that it is Terminator Armor or nothing.  Bikes are expensive and 3+ Armor, so they are looking like a "bring a Squadron" for the Bolters and Teleport Homers...  But do not count on them living with all the things that ignore cover AND the 3+ save...  OTOH, they do bring speed and a really good first strike ability to my force...

Far and away the "Death Star" I brought in the form of the LRC with the Command Squad/Banner of silly shooting/TechMarine w/ Power Field was the MVP for me...  It DID take 2 hull points of damage over the course of the game, but I made a LOT of 4++ saves, and the TM has the 4+ to repair the vehicle instead of shooting and since he cannot shoot inside the vehicle...  Not so sure it will be something I keep running, but to be honest I am pretty happy with it all things considered.  24" range only, so a bit limiting there...  Any light Infantry caught by this should really just die though...  So many shots hitting that even Heavy Infantry have to be careful...  Thinking that next week I run this, maybe back to Belial and Terminators for the most part...  Could be a really brutal "rush forward and hope for the best" army...  2 DW Squads, Belial, the LRC of silliness and a bike Squadron...  NOT a lot of models, but might work...

So, next week's Army... 1850 again...

Well, looking like nothing too bad on the rules questions I had...  So looking like this will be what I am bringing:

Azrael
Command Squad (Banner of Devastation, Power Weapon maybe?)
Land Raider Crusader (MM)
Techmarine (Servo Harness, Power Field)
Deathwing Squad (10, 2 CML, 4 TH/SS?)
Tac Squad (10, ML w/ Flak, Flamer)
Tac Squad (10, ML w/Flak, Flamer)
Ravenwing Squadron (6 bikes, Attack Bike w/MM, Melta Gun)

Leaves me a few more points, and it is going to be a very "unsubtle" force...  Techmarine gives me a 3+ cover save to park some of the lads in...  Probably a Flak team, though maybe the Terminators against some forces...  Terminators can DW Assault in on one of the many Teleport Homers I have out there, or just hole up and hold an objective.  Everyone is a "Troop" selection, so I could potentially have 7 of them...  A lot of them a bit weak, but...  Plan is to park the Land Raider with Techmarine, Command Squad and probably Azrael in it at the front of my DZ...  The Tactical Squads deploy around it, preventing Deep Strikers, and giving more Salvo Bolters...  The Bikes Scout to the front to provide coverage there, and gaining the 4++ and making their Bolters Salvo as well...

Essentially, I have a metric crapton of Bolter fire, so it will be pretty deadly against Hordes...  Most Marines will have a fairly hard time dealing with the sheer number of shots they can throw out...  Fliers are going to be an issue, but can't be helped I think.  Just kill off everything else...

couple of rules questions...

Sitting at doctor office and have a few minutes....

So, here goes...

For the purposes of the Banner of devestation what all counts as a Bolter?  Hurricane Bilters list as "3 twin linked bolters fired as a single weapon", so I would say yes...  Likewise bikes have the tl Bolter, assuming that too...  Combi weapons? Yes?

Do "bubble" effects work from within a Vehicle?  The Sanguinary Priest's does, so I am going with the assumption that it is "yes"...  So the Banner and Power Field inside the Land Raider would have a fairly big "footprint" on the field...

Thinking that I might have to run a Heavy Bolter in one of the Squadrons of Ravenwing that I keep near the LR/Banner...  Just to be able to cause casualties at ranges greater than 24" via the new FAQ...  Potentially 28 TL Bolter shots should do a few wounds on whatever, but I am more concerned about hitting IG Blob/Chaos Cultist squads and only being able to do a few casualties if we end up dancing on the edge of 24" range...

Guessing the biggest thing I am really concerned about is the verdamnten Heldrake...  I just don't have a good answer to that.  Though giving all of my lads huddled around the LR a 4++ might help...  2 ML with the Flak missiles are not I think the answer to deal with AV 12 fliers, and while the Salvo of Bolter fire might work should one present a Rear arc shot...  Unlikely I would say...

1850 DA, This time formatted better...

Yeah, kind of doing a free range ramble on the last post there...  On one hand, really unfocused on the surface...  But thanks GraveMind!  That Power Field suggestion is looking like a really good one...  And amusing with the Techmarine riding in and hopefully repairing the LR...

So:
Azrael
Command Squad w/ Banner of Devastation, Company Champion
Techmarine w/ Servo and Power Field
Deathwing Squad (10, 2 CML, 4 TH/SS)
2 Tactical Squads (10 man each, Flamer, ML w/ Flak)
Ravenwing Squadron (6 Bikes, Attack Bike w/MM, 1-2 Melta guns?)

Getting pretty close to the end there...  I'd LIKE to fit in a Hyperion ML turret or three at 35 points each, but I should have a fair amount of resilient scoring presence on the field with this...  Al LD 10 or Fearless, loads of 4++ saves, some upgraded cover saves hopefully...  Not the same hyper aggressive force I normally play with my Fleshtearers, Wolves or even my Crimson Fists, but I DO think it will work well, assuming the Banner and Power Field both project their bubble around the Land Raider hull...

DA back to 1850...

Back to "normal" games...  Not sure if the weather will permit the motorcycle next week or not, but in any case I tend to have a "set" army list or two that can be easily transported via bike or truck...

So here goes:
Azrael or Belial...  Still deciding here.  Azrael gives me Ld 10 and that's pretty nice...  Deathwing/Ravenwing Troops...  Belial makes the DW Troops...  If I bring them, really feel I need to Deepstrike to get the full advantage.  Belial would not scatter and has the Homer for follow on forces.  Been playing DW Assault wrong, it is only one, they ALL come in at once, no choosing for each unit...  Still, turn one, good odds on the lads coming in on turn 2 to support...  Azrael if I can find some points for a Ravenwing squad I guess for the extra Homers...

2 Squads of PA Troops...  8 Bolters each, Flamer and Missile Launcher w/ Flak rounds.  Probably should mention that I am bringing a Command Squad as well...  They'll have the Banner of Detestation and ride in my Land Raider Crusader.  Now, as I am reading it, the Hurricane Bolters are listed in the Codex as 3 twin linked Bolters that fire as a single weapon...  And the Banner makes the Bolters Salvo 2/4...  Being Vehicle Mounted, they should always fire as if stationary.  So 24 shots/turn, twin linked, and the 2 squads (4 if Combat Squad) of lads on the outside to be a buffer...  LD 10, Stubborn, with the potential for 32 more Bolter shots each...  Yes, I COULD bring more, but I am honestly more concerned with things not easily brought down by Bolters ..

Deathwing Squad, maybe 2...  Or one and one Ravenwing Squadron to give me Homers and a fast moving platform...  Maybe they park in front of the LRC to take advantage of the Banner for the start of the game... :-)  Does sound like a bit of fun...  Bonus they're ALL Troops, can throw down a metric crapton (Yes, the Metric one IS bigger) of fire...

Yeah, posted quicker than I should have...  In the LRC and attached to the Command Squad will be a Techmarine...  Thought it was a bit light...  So, depends a bit on whether the Hurricane Bolters are counted as "Bolters", else I can just bring a standard "Godhammer" class Land Raider for the TL Las Cannons...  Am feeling a bit light on the AAA/AT firepower...  But I may just be paranoid...

Ah, Campaign games...

Yeah, remembering again why I do not like GW's campaign games.  There is almost never any thought given to "balance" or anything of that sort.  The game last night illustrated it very painfully.  And I am most certainly NOT faulting the players for running armies that exploited the poorly written rules for the scenario...  Just that Fliers, which are already "somewhat overpowered" got a bunch of bonuses and Reserves being able to come in anywhere on the Station meant that people bringing in late reserves were able to simply walk on and take Objectives...  Things like "Send in the Next Wave" for the IG were REALLY powerful as the 30 man unit could just keep walking in wherever they wanted, fire their now with Rending las guns, kill a bunch of things and then die to reappear next turn somewhere else...  Yeah, Rending for all attacks EXCEPT against Necrons and Demons...

Just poorly written and unbalanced rules.  Not a major problem if you are doing this as a "beer and pretzels" thing with a group of buddies, and since that appears to be the GW philosophy for most of their stuff, unsurprising.  Problem if you are wanting to inject this into a competitive league where there is money on the table.  Mind, I am not stressing/stressed about this, if I happen to win, great, else as long as I have fun playing then I consider the league fees to be money well spent.  This was not a fun game.  One of the reasons I stopped playing a lot of Privateer Press league stuff, the scenarios were, to put it nicely "poorly written".  Just led to games that were no fun whatever for one or both players.  Kind of easy to burn out on a system when you pay to play, must play with their models (no proxies/3rd party stuff allowed) and then feel like you get thrown into a game you cannot win, no matter what.  NOT the situation in the 40K league, we're all about proxies, 3rd party stuff is fine, etc...  Just that some of these special ones like this just kill off a lot of the "good feelings" we get from playing most of the games.

Anyway, back to 1850 games next week, so I can actually field a regular army...  Looking forward to that.  I might even get to play :-)