Marines in a few weeks?

On to Marines?  Looking like Marines come out next.  Interesting, I am a bit surprised they were not one of the first ones, but still…  I DO have a Crimson Fists army and another huge mess of generic ancient Marines, so I’ll be getting the book at least.

Going over the rumors and leaks, I have to admit I am a bit concerned that this might either be broken good or complete crap like the Dark Angels. 

The rumors I am liking:

Scouts getting the Land Speeder Storm as a dedicated Transport:  Why did this take so long?  IIRC, the model was out before the 5^th edition codex.  Personally I never bought the kit because it was “eh” at best and ate up a second slot…  Also, might or might not be able to do cool things like flank and hit the table assaulting, etc…  So, if I can use the open top skimmer as a dedicated transport for the Shotgun Scouts I have in my CF army if I convert one of the many Speeder models…  So, neat, but certainly I think NOT over powered in any way shape or form.

AA Rhino:  Sounding more and more like an actual dedicated AAA vehicle.  FINALLY?  Not that the needing to field your own fliers was a problem or anything…  OK, it was a VERY sore point for me at least…  But in any case, looking like the Marines will have some decent AAA threats.  Have to admit I am REALLY kind of hoping that all of the other flavors of Marine will get this kit as well right out of the box.  My Wolves and Fleshtearers would be well served by having access to this tank…  Not something I am counting on though given GW…

On the fence about:

Grav Weapons:  Have to wait and see I think.  If the info is correct and they wound based on the target’s armor save and are AP 2, then I think they might be overly powerful.  As long as they are rareish like Melta weapons, then I am not really seeing any real problem…  OTOH, if they are common, cheap and better than Melta?  Well…

Things I am NOT looking forward to:

Vanguard Vets:  Word is they lose their ability to Assault from Deep Strike.  If this is true, then why would anyone ever take this unit?  They become just another 3+ armor save Assault Squad.  Extra Attacks I guess and I COULD spend a crapton of points/money and go TH/SS for some reason…  Still a lot of EXPENSIVE 3+ save bodies that still cannot get into Assault easily enough.  Thinking about facing Tau, I drop in, get hit by Interceptors, some of which are large blast Marine Killing weapons…  Then I sit around a turn while the Tau shoot at me with full BS or more likely), THEN I get to take the few survivors (if any) and try to assault into the supporting overwatch fire of doom, which might be at higher BS if there are enough markerlights…  Really?  So, this tells me that this will not ever actually happen on a gaming table…  I guess my BA based Fleshtearers will still do this for now assuming they do not FAQ them out of existence.

Guess that leads me to my next thing I am either on the fence about of not looking forward to:  Is this Vanilla only, or will a lot of the changes be propagated through all of the “Marine” Codices?  Right now, my Wolves are at best and Ally force, incapable I believe of taking on a top tier list on their own.  The DA are just bad all around lacking serious cover from the Heldrakes and now Tau combos.  The BA are an assault or fast Rhino Hull based army, neither of which will work overly well in the modern era.  Not saying that it auto loses, just that the Xenos’ ability to simply kill Marines in 3+ (and even 2+) armor has passed the old standard of 4’s across the board for characteristics and 3+ armor being enough to win games…  The Bolter itself is certainly showing its age as well.  Range, Str and AP are all average…  To put it in modern perspective, the lack of say, Rending like the Eldar get, the Necron’s 6’s glance Vehicles or the Tau’s greater range, Str and extra rules…  Well, why bother really?  I wind up with an inferior weapon on an expensive trooper who is now easily taken down by the things further up the power spiral…  I guess the Marines will themselves be going down in cost, so at least they won’t be so expensive on their own…  Just a wait and see what, if anything else changes and whether the “3+ Armor Mafia” can get back to competing on the tabletop…

Elites, DLC and Marines coming out next Month

Mkay, I apparently read too many other blogs…  Goatboy had a pretty decent write-up about how “Elite” as a slot in the 6^th edition Codices has become something less than “Elite” here http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/08/goatboys-monday-40k-elites-are-not-so.html.  I’d have to agree for the most part.  But the same can be said of Fast and Heavy Support really…  While HS has some of the “BFG” stuff, and both HS and FA CAN become scoring in certain missions, frankly the current edition punishes you for bringing anything other than “Troops” or things that can be made Scoring more often than not.  So, the books with the best “Troops” are the most successful armies.  Have to admit, this is one of my major concerns with the upcoming Marine book.

Rumor has the Grav weapons coming in with AP of 2.  So, the new Melta perhaps?  Just remembering 5^th edition where there were IG Vet Squads, whatever else, all armed with as many Melta weapons as they could because there were a lot of Vehicles and there frankly was no real disadvantage to the use of Melta.  It killed “Whatever” you were shooting at.  In some cases not as efficiently as Plasma, but it wouldn't kill YOU for shooting the weapon, so…  Oh, and it was/is cheaper. Hoping the Grav weapons are not too over the top silly, but good to see ancient things hitting the field again...  Now, hoping the AA stuff is actually good enough to keep the Heldrakes at bay for a bit...

In any case, the current Tactical Squad in the Marine books is pretty worthless in my opinion.  Not very mobile, the bolter isn't that powerful a weapon these days, and the 3+ armor just isn’t what it was years ago.  Scouts with the proliferation of “no cover saves” in recent books have taken yet another hit and are now back to novelty status from a solid, cheap Troop option.  And…?  With the Vanilla Codex, a bike CPT would allow you to use Bike Squads as Troops I guess.  Great, until you hit your first Heldrake or Tau gunline.  Then, just more expensive casualties.  Blood Angels get Assault Squads as Troops, as well as Death Company (and DC DNs).  Assault troops are “eh” these days overall.  I do FAR better with them than my Tac Marines in my Fleshtearer force as the Jump Packs at least make the lads mobile enough to try to run a flank or use a big piece of terrain to hide in and assault out of…  So, against all but the most powerful armies like the Necron air force, Chaos allies, Tau Gunlines and now Eldar forces they can at least be a threat that must be dealt with…  The Death Company are really only technically Troops as they can NEVER hold anything, so they are just shock troops for me.  Kill as much as they can and hope I have the only force still standing at the end.  Not being able to assault out of Reserve for the most part means that Scouts and Deep Strikers by and large are no nearly so good as they were.  Oh, and there are Interceptors now that can just kill you as you hit the field.  So, even less useful given I can only Reserve 50% or so of the force in this edition.  Target saturation is hard when you only have a few Deep Strikers…

So, back on topic J..  I am interested to see what, if anything else that GW does for the old Tactical Marines.  It does not appear as if they will themselves be getting anything in the lines of new Transports or armor, so…  Well, I am assuming a major points reduction at least, but really what else?  Another Melta Gun is neat and all, but what else can they do?  Just having the required bodies to hold objectives is not enough I think.  They probably wouldn't get the Sternguard ammo types, and that might well be overly powerful…  Remembering the old CCW/Pistol/Rifle weapon load out would be nice, but really nothing new or all that useful.  Seeing the Tau get the ability to provide cover fire for their own people as they get charged and this being applied in the Apocalypse Marine formation?  Might be something that at least some of the new Tactical Marines might get something to that effect…   But what else really?  Guess this is why I’m not a game developer…

Other thing, the Supplemental Codices…  Are they really supplemental or are they something different?  http://blog.spikeybits.com/2013/08/editorial-digital-releases-are-they.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SpikeyBits+%28Spikey+Bits%29

Pretty darn expensive for the 2 pages of rules, and of course there is the whole bypassing the FLGS thing…  Since I actually PLAY at the game store, I’d much prefer to make my purchases there.  ‘course, with electronic content, this is not an option.  For the most part I am not really seeing this as a major problem…  So far they’re “neat” options, but nothing game breaking or really overly powerful that will be dominating the competitive scene.  I know GW does not support this and they claim to not to care or write their rules with this in mind, but this is how a LOT of the game is played here in the States…  The fact that the rules are “exclusive” and not generally available to everyone is a major concern for me as a player in a tournament, and honestly I’m not sure I’d be allowing them as the Tournament Organizer…  I have a small one coming up at the Gopher next month, and due to the size, not a major issue for me J…  But of course by then at least one more will be released, and if this is the one that breaks it?  I guess my major objection to this is the clear “cash grab” as they release the DLC a bit at a time for “premium” prices.  I am concerned that the cost will continue to shoot up while they release more and more things that break the game further, requiring the competitive players to keep buying direct from GW…  Guess we’ll see.

Eldar continued and the general 40K scene locally

After a number of games involving the Eldar, the one glaringly obvious conclusion I have come to is that the Wave Serpent is vastly overpowered.  I’m not brining what I feel is a “Let’s Spam Them” level of the things, but even the 4 that I was fielding were more than enough.  Averaging 9 wounds/WS/turn.  With 3 of them starting on the field for me, and not particularly caring about cover saves…  Oh, and they can move 12” and fire both of their main weapons?  Mine are coming in at 135 points with the Holo Field.  The Shuriken Cannon would be awesome, but just can’t quite justify the extra 10 points/Serpent…  Yet.  It is a major consideration, and frankly with more Marine rumors floating about?  Not sure this isn’t going to get FAQ’d out of existence.  I can count on one hand the number of times I have NOT fired the Shield as an offensive weapon, and almost all of these were Turn 1 when I either had no targets or the other side went first and I was unable to have fired J…  Hoping to survive the Meltas dropping in on me…

Last night’s game I used the Farseer for the first time.  Doom with the sheer number of shots?  And with Sniper, Shuriken and “d” class weapons all getting huge bonuses on the 6’s to wound?  Have to say, the life span of the big MC’s or Terminators will be very limited I think near one of these lads.  Picked my target, Doomed and Guided…  Did use the Eldritch Storm twice as well, and rolled snake eyes for the wounding myself…  NOT a bad power I have to say.  Fleshbane and a large blast?  2 power points though…  Still, bunched up stuff wounding on 2+?  Thinking that a Farseer/Spiritseer combo will allow me to have the best of both worlds.

Troops?  The 5 man Dire Avenger (DA) squads are adequate if what you are doing is getting the 135 point uber-transport and a few bodies to do the late game objective grabs.  The Wraithguard are awesome, and with the Spiritseer making them Troops and granting a few other bonuses they have been my “go to” troop option.  The DA with their 18” ranged rending (sort of) weapon, move-shoot-move option and not bad stats overall are pretty darn good.  I’ve been less happy with the Guardians with their limited range and large minimum size.  Not bad per se, but unless you are running a 20 man squad I’m having a hard time seeing them being as good as or better than the DA.  The Heavy Weapon upgrades are nice (except the Scatter Laser), but let’s be honest, I am NOT lacking on the number of heavy weapon shots in my army.  Bright Lances might be the exception, but haven’t seen the massed AV 14 stuff in a while…

Picking up some terrain from one of the other games locally…  The set includes 2 Bastions and 3 Aegis gun lines with the various guns.  One Bastion I will be making standard for my Imperial forces.  Seeing the usefulness of these recently playing with limited terrain, but having HtH Wraiths say waiting in the building?  Or just a squad of Praetorians to man the extra Heavy Bolters?  The AAA option will I think be needed as well, though more for the Interceptor option than the Skyfire recently…  Not seeing as many Aircraft, not entirely sure why, I think they are still on the really powerful end of things…  Tau are hitting the field in bulk these days, a bit surprised I’m one of the very few Eldar players..  But back on topic, the second Bastion?  Make it more Eldar maybe?  Dunno…  Forgot to check if these were things I could link together in Apocalypse games for one of the formations…  So, if anyone local is looking to pick up a Bastion or a few Aegis lines cheap, LMK…

Kind of in “wait and see” mode really with most of the local gaming group…  The group is still large and growing, and with the Students coming back now might even get larger…  But most of the people are cutting back on their purchases.  Dropping down to one or two armies, etc…  As more things get released in the 6^th edition, I think the game itself is getting a bit more balanced overall, but there are a few things that really stand out about almost every new Codex.  Chaos Marines got the Heldrake, Tau got the load of “we break a lot of the game’s rules” stuff, the Eldar have their Wave Serpent, etc…  Really the only one I can honestly say did NOT get something that stands out as broken/silly is the Dark Angels.  Without the Heldrake a LOT of their stuff like the uber-bikers and the like would be really powerful and fun to play…  Now, they have the ability to make their Bolters Salvo 2/4 with a magic banner.  Neat I guess, if you are looking at causing mass wounds to things that are concerned about bolters.  So, yes, the people fielding the IG blobs, Cultist blobs or Green Tide stopped doing that after a few of us played DA that way…  But overall, the DA book was the one I’d point to and say it was a complete flop.  A few “new” things in the special speeder and unique flier, but the rules for both are such complete crap.  A real shame, the flier at least looked nice and having plasma armed speeders again was something in and of itself…  Have to say, this is my big concern with the Marine Codex coming out next month, or so the rumors go…  FFS, a major company hiding its release schedule until the last moment in this day and age?  Anyway, the Marines have so much potential, and there is SO much that they could draw on to make something new, unique and customizable for almost every 3+ armor save player out there…  Will they?  Hence the “Wait and See” attitude.  Right now a lot of us who play/played the 3+ armor armies are looking at the game and seeing that for the first time that we can remember the “standard” armor is no longer good enough.  Either weight of fire or low AP and/or the loss of cover saves has made it suicide to bring certain units…  Hell, certain armies are just silly to bring these days.  Thinking for me my Fleshtearers are just silly to bring, but my Crimson Fists are right there next to them.  At least the CF have the win big or die quick thing going for them.  A lot of the players, especially the ones out in Danville were REALLY not prepared for a hyper aggressive army played by someone who understood how to use it.  But against someone who has either seen it or understands how to defend against it or at least react to it?  I have one trick/shot to do so much damage as to force the game to end or I die.  This has gotten far worse with the Tau and Eldar now hitting the field.  My Scouts were my “Troops” to sit on objectives, but they are one of the “Why Bother” units these days.  Sternguard are great, but few in number.  Few AA options and the general feeling that the power spiral has passed the Marine based forces by mean there are more than a few players simply finding other games or just no longer showing up regularly…  Of course, the general feeling of being priced out of the game has grown a lot recently, and I know that with reality being what it is I and a lot of the others I talk to have had to seriously cut back on their purchases…  Thus, dropping to fewer armies, not buying new stuff, etc…  Maybe this will reverse, but…

1850 Eldar list, something different for me...

So, the Wraiths work really well...  Will try testing something different...

1850
Farseer (Phoenix Gem)
Dire Avengers (5, Wave Serpent w/ HF and TLSL)
Dire Avengers (5, Wave Serpent w/ HF and TLSL)
Rangers (5)
Striking Scorpions (9, Exarch w/crushing blow and chainsabers, Wave Serpent w/HL, TLSL)
War Walkers (BL/SL on each)
Crimson Hunter (Exarch, Marksman's Eye)
Swooping Hawks (6, Exarch w/ sun rifle and Marksman's eye)
Warp Spiders (5, Exarch with Spinneret Rifle and Marksman's Eye, fast shot)
Dark Reapers (3, Exarch w/Tempest and Fast Shot, Wave Serpent w/ standard loadout)

So, a LOT of Marksman's Eye...  Yes, I know it means I need to roll 5+ to hit, but getting to place the shots can be huge...  The Jaeger seems like it will be nice with the 4 Str 8 AP 2 shots to deal with Paladins nicely and getting to kill off say, an Apothecary on a flyby?  Not bad...

A little short on actual Troops bodies, but DAMN, there will be a lot of shooting....  And accurate shooting at that...  We'll see how it works out I guess...

Saving up my hobby money, guessing the Wraith Knight will be coming here soon...  Anyone looking for a few ancient Magic cards :-)  Probably break apart my old decks with things like Taigas, etc...

Broken Units in 40K now…

Saw this (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/07/40k-top-10-units-that-are-ruining-game.html) and it got me thinking that while I agree with a number of those on the list…  There are a number of questions I’d raise and of course, my opinion differs a bit…  Could very well be how things are played locally here, but here it goes.  Mr. Vela lists the following as the 10:

Space Wolf Rune Priest

Wave Serpent

Necron Nightscythe

Heldrake

Tau Commander

Nurgle Daemon Prince

Eldar Wraithknight

Necron Annihilation Barge

Tervigon

Codex Imperial Guard

The Necron things I kind of agree on, though there are a LOT of things in the Necron codex broken.  The Barge is pretty low on the list for me.  Tesla getting the 6’s count for 3 hits mean their AAA is pretty darn good given the number of Twin Linked Tesla things they have.  Cheap fliers that ignore a lot of the 6^th edition rules?  Yes, that is the biggest problem I have with them I think.  Cheaper and better than later actual fliers, and no disadvantages for the transported unit should you shoot it down?  This to me screams of a game design problem more than anything, and having seen too many good games die out as game design issues pile up and ruin the base game…

Tervigon?  Not sure I agree here…  But then I am surprised that so few players actually play Tyranids.  I honestly consider them to be among the more difficult ones to face overall, though they DO suffer from a fairly limited list of “these things are good” in their book.  Flying MC’s and the other big nasties though…  Guessing the general feeling from the online “competitive scene” constantly calling the Nids useless combined with the difficulty playing that army in a timed competitive environment mean it ranks pretty low.  For me, it was always a matter of target prioritization and I usually do fairly well against them.  But I tend to pick a target, shoot it off the board, then move on to the next target.  People shooting at a lot of targets will usually end up not killing enough to stop the rush and get overwhelmed.

Heldrake?  Yeah.  When it goes beyond an “auto include” to a “serious players are bringing at least 2” thing…  I made that last comment last night, mostly kidding, but the reality is that there is almost no down side to the thing, it IS a hard counter to almost any army in 3+ armor, or bike based forces and did more to kill off a lot of people’s interest in playing those armies locally than almost anything else.

Tau Commander?  Guess I haven’t played against enough of the Tau at this point…  Though there ARE something like 5 players now locally…  That in and of itself might be telling…

Wave Serpent.  Agreed, and covered here previously.  Probably too good.  Not un-killable, but darn good for the points.  At least it isn’t a damn flier like the Necron equivalent. 

Now some slight disagreement:

Nurgle Prince?  Eh, though perhaps the other Princes hitting the field have hidden this one from us.  Besides, with him hiding in ruins means he isn’t flying about killing things…

Wraith Knight?  Note, I WILL be buying one.  Not though that I feel it to be overpowered…  I could be fielding 6 Eldar DN’s (Wraith Lords) right now, and I find them to be darn powerful at the moment.  The Knight?  For the cost ($ AND points on the field), the limits of it being essentially the same as its smaller brother make it a slightly tougher to take down target that does not have the offensive punch to double that of the WL.  As a MC it can fire 2 weapons.  Neat, and the Str 10 uber guns look amazing.  But the lack of an invulnerable save or immunity to Instant Death mean that configuration is likely out in general.  I CAN add 2 more have weapons I cannot fire most turns.  The WL has this free and the 2 flamers are actually useful at times…  Just saying J… So, the most likely configuration is the Sun-cannon with the 5++ shield and one or two shoulder mounted weapons.

Rune Priest?  Eh.  The only thing in the codex not really killed instantly by the swarms of Heldrakes.  Wolf Scouts have been nerfed out of usefulness, Long Fangs just die to Drakes.  Grey Hunters are still good, but really have been overtaken by lots of the other 3+ save armies.  Blood Claws are still crap.  Frankly everything with “Claw” in the name is crappy in the current book…  So, the wizard in the army still has a holdover magic defense.  Neat I guess, but facing most current armies?  Really not a big deal.  Having said that, if you regularly face Daemons, Tyranid MC or other armies relying heavily on magic…  Might well be different.  Not the current case really locally.  My old codex Eldar nerfed the GK, but it was a serious uphill battle even without their psychics/magic…  Right now, the bulk of the successful armies are simply shooting their opponents off the table, not a lot of reliance on tricks or magic…

Edit:  You know, typed all that and I didn't really add anything I think...

So, what do I feel is broken right now?  Well, there are a number of troubling things in the Tau codex for me.  Getting to fire overwatch at better BS, firing with multiple units, etc.?  No cover save, better BS...  So essentially there are a LOT of things that break the basic rules of the game built into the book.  I find that trend troubling.  Thankfully, other than the Wave Serpent the Eldar codex is pretty well balanced I think....

:-)  Of course, just my opinion on these things per usual...

Are the Eldar TOO good again?

The more I play the new Codex and understand better how to use the Units in the book, the more I think that perhaps the Eldar are back to being overpowered...  The 2 big things that worry me about this are: Marines are next, and if this is a power spiral, then that bodes ill for the game itself.  And the LAST time the Eldar were what I thought of as overpowered, they spent more than 2 full editions in "penance mode" with a severely crippled and craptastic codex.  I hope that neither of these happens again, but not holding my breath.

Don't get me wrong, the Eldar do not come off the shelf with the plug and play answer to every situation out there, but I do believe they have access to the tools that will make them able to stand against ANY other army out there currently and easily take apart a good number of them.  Most of them in fact.  There are only a few that I would hesitate to take my standard "All Comers" list against and be confident that at the least I will have a fighting chance against.  SO much (almost) Rending, D Weapons, re-rolls/twin linking and Ignore Cover firepower in everything that it just feels like I have a FAR better force than my old standards of Wolves or Fleshtearers.  GK and IG are I think likewise out shot and more importantly outmaneuvered by the MUCH faster Eldar forces.

Even my ancient Scorpions are getting back onto the field.  They are actually REALLY good these days, though require a lot more finesse than say, the Death Company :-)...  My Swooping Hawks are also quite good.  Not 2nd Ed good, but using them as Light Cavalry to harass a flank, assassinate something specific hiding in the rear, or even Score on some missions...  For 106 points?  NOT bad at all.  Mind, not like the FT's Vanguard Vets, but I think overall more useful.

Looking forward to testing out a Crimson Hunter.  I think that upgrading to the Exarch will be a good thing for the called shots, re-roll on AP against fliers, etc...  Not sure if the 5+ to call the shots will be useful in the short term, longer term as the massed Flier armies fade, I do think it will be.  Being able to call shots against say, the Apothecary in the Draigo Wing's Paladin Squads might well be something to consider...

Overall, I think that the Eldar Codex is a VERY powerful one in the right hands, just hoping it is not TOO powerful for TOO many people.

Getting the Apocalypse book read now.  Sad to see how many damn formations I CAN field without proxies all at once.  No clue the actual number of points I can field, but it is going to be a LOT over the 6+ full armies I own.  Only one Titan and one Super Heavy Tank (Eldar Tempest Class, no longer exists of course...), but still...  When the lads gather and march, might be needing a cargo vehicle to haul them all...  Looks like fun, but the potential for forever games seems there...

Eldar so far... Wave Serpents for the win...

OK, so far I have found that the Wave Serpent is in and of itself a game winner against certain armies.  Specifically, gun lines that are depending on cover or massed Infantry trying to rush across the field.  So, unfortunately for my Ork opponent last evening...  His exact army.  I had 3 of the Wave Serpents in the list, and I have to say, they DID do a big portion of the killing for my army.  The twin linked Scatter Lasers making the Shield shots also twin linked is powerful.  I would argue it is almost borderline TOO powerful, certainly for the points and lack of a slot in the ToE for it...  Yes, the WS can be killed, and it is not too terribly difficult for some things to do so, but really for the 135 or so points?  On the other hand, the ability to move out from cover or onto the table and get those 4+ (d6+1) shots, most likely all twin linked against everything but Fliers?  Heck, even Fliers should worry about this as lots of dice rolled with re-rolls will usually mean a few 6's come up...

So, while the WS is HUGE, and if rumor is correct being pulled off the bloody market...  Mkay, slight rant here, NOT sure this is happening, but the rumor is that it is going direct only going forward?  Wow, that does seem to put the independent retailers in a difficult position as the new codex comes out with a brokenly powerful unit that will only or mostly be available through GW itself?  Seems an "interesting" choice for a company to make...  Unless this is simply the interrim step as the kit is redone/repackaged?  Maybe.  But given their history, I am less hopeful.  Besides, this is NOT the oldest kit they have in that line...  Though making the old Falcon kit more efficiently would seem logical...  I guess we'll see.  I actually have a few Falcon hulls around and will likely be recasting some of the ancient Epicast/Armorcast ones I have...  They are just THAT different that they fit in with my ancient figures a bit better I think.

What else worked?

Swooping Hawks:  Well the Swooping Hawks were INSANE.  Though a lot of that had to do with him bunching up Lootas and Grechin behind cover.  The large blast template ignoring cover and what armor they had meant that between that and the Las Blaster shots after, there were no survivors.  I think I caught something like 26 Grots in the blast and killed 24 with majority T of 2...  NOT game winning in and of itself, but that was their second appearance.  They also cleared the Emperor's Will objective, were themselves scoring for line breaker and  holding that objective...  Of course, the fact they also more or less erased a full Loota squad on Turn 2 meant they had already more than paid for themselves...  More testing I think, but a six man squad seems to be an excellent thing to have.

War Walkers:  The loadout of Bright Lance/Scatter Laser seems to be an excellent "all comers" one, and with 3 of them hitting 195 points?  Flanking with the move/shoot/move potential?  5++ save, though a really light Vehicle with 2 Hull Points...  Oddly, mine never took fire at all as they appeared then used a building to shoot and duck for the game.  Again, not a list that included a lot of AT firepower or fliers, so further testing I think...

And...  Well, that was about it really.  The Spirit Seer DID use his Destructor power, then charge a few Orks killing them...  With the residual flames (Soul Blaze) unfortunately for the last one so he could not move after combat...  Left him in the open to get shot off the field.  Dark Reapers came out, killed a few things (Warlord power was Split Fire) but then they got destroyed by the BFG on the looted wagons...

So, basically, it was my TRANSPORTS that killed off the bulk of the other army...