Ok, feeling a bit like an idiot... I've been playing the Consecrators, a Dark Angels force for a while now, and it was just pointed out to me that Forgeworld updated their stuff for 6th Edition and added a few rules to the "Mortis" class DN. So, it is limited to DA and successors, but it is MUCH cheaper and it gains the same "Mortis" rule as the Contemptor class DN, if it stands still in the movement phase it gains Interceptor and Skyfire. So, now only 125 points for the 2 x TL Auto Cannon DN, AND it can do Interceptor/Skyfire/AAA duty? So... Where's the down side again? I was trying to scrimp and save enough points wise to keep using the Hyperion missile emplacements, but this is WAY better... And as it happens I have "a few" DN hulls around, some of them even magnetized and painted up in my DA colors... Might even be worth it for me to run the TL Lascannon one :-) Just to be able to regularly throw 2 LC shots into fliers hitting the table...
Have to say, I was dreading using my Tactical Marines in any real way, but this information does make my a LOT more comfortable bringing the lads out to play, even with limited Flak missile use. Though, as my ancient "Beakies" are almost all armed with the original weapons of Missile Launcher and Flamer... I am a BIT limited there for the moment until I break out more of the lads from their deep storage, but still, Azrael leading out a few Tac Squads, DW Squads and RW Squadrons for an all scoring army seems like it will work with DA DN's able to provide AAA support easily enough... Hmmmm... I may have a "slight change" for my regular 1850 list... And with the datafiles for the old 2nd ed Armybuilder program being updated (http://ab240k.freeforums.org/, it is MUCH easier :-)...
Sad to me that it looks so much like an afterthought from Forgeworld that will make the DA codex actually quite playable against the overload of flier silliness that seems to be hitting the tables... Further convinces me that GW does not seem to play the same game we do, or at least not in anything resembling the same manner we play at least... So much like the old "Planet Storm" game days where our local group would use the "K2 Shaw" (think an Artillery version of the Cyclone Missile armed Terminator), and make comments like "What to do once the Artillery ammunition is depleted?" The groups playing in LA and Canada were speachless as they bitterly complained how useless the unit was, and how they'd never get more than a single shot off... Turns out we played on a 4'x8' or 5'x10' table, they usually played on a 4'x4' table... And by turn 2, you were at pistol/SMG range making board ranging Artillery and sniper rifles "less useful"... Have to wonder if there is something like that going on, or if it just that they really do not play at all and so don't see the same issues and problems that we as players do...
Wednesday, February 13, 2013
Sunday, February 10, 2013
Next week and beyond...
So, next week we play that Crusade of Fire game with multiple steps... 750 points and I have to keep a legal army... So, either I keep playing my Deathwing and field an 11 man army or... Well I guess I could field a Librarian, 2 Tactical Squads and "other"... But not sure I can move fast enough, nor am I confident I could survive long enough to even get to the center of the table. If we go by the rules in the book, I field Belial and simply teleport to the entrance and then enter the bunker on turn one... Needing the second "Troop", I will likely only be able to field 2 min size Deathwing squads, some weapon upgrades and... Maybe a Terminator Librarian? Or just a really tooled out couple of squads... Then the lads will have to survive the tunnel fight. Only thing I really dread is that the scenario was clearly NOT written with a lot of armies in mind... Thinking of the ones that can create more "Troops" or that can simply keep bringing the ones they have back from the dead ("Send in the next wave" for the IG). I don't think it will be as much a problem with the only objective hopefully NOT being anywhere really near the entrances... It was REALLY a disappointing end to the last multi player game with 2 of the 3 teams having the ability to simply appear right on top of the damn objectives on the last turn... Really felt like we played out the whole game for nothing... Hoping this one is different...
Kind of brings me to where I am with the game itself. Maybe we have been playing the Forgeworld stuff for long enough that we have a bit more available to us WRT Fliers and defense against them... The Hyperion missile turrets are cheap and REALLY powerful... Not as powerful I think as the Fliers themselves are, or at least the Fliers we see on the table... Vendettas, Heldrakes,Necrons the occasional Storm Raven and... Yeah, that's pretty much it. The ones that have come out in the 6th Ed other than the Heldrake are pretty expensive and weak overall... So, probably what was intended and well balanced. Problem is that the ones that are coming up from the 5th edition are simply too powerful and cheap in comparison. Maybe they'll update this all in the upcoming "Flier Compendium" coming up next week, but being the cynic I am, I suspect it will simply be reprinted rules and nothing at all new.. No points adjustments, as GW is loathe to make changes on the fly, even to save their own cash cow game... To a point I can see that as some games I have played in the past had the feel of perpetual "beta" as the developers kept making changes on the fly, FAQs became the rulebook, and that probably killed the system... But I think that not making changes and NOT admitting that there might be a problem will kill this game.
I have to wonder if the developers and play testers are playing the same game we are really... I know in typical English fashion, GW holds "competitive play" in a great deal of disdain... (yes, I'm mostly Scottish... Some English, Irish, etc., but mostly Highlander :-) )... A lot of things do not really make sense... Assault Cannons being the one that sticks out to me at the moment assembling Deathwing... At one time, it WAS the single most powerful weapon in the game. 3 follow fire dice, Str 8, -5 save modifier and d12 wounds per hit? Not as bad as the original rules where it was just a "keep rolling until you roll a 1"... It would keep firing until you ran out of targets or failed to hit or wound... 2nd edition was insane (the first rules I have up there) where you could put 2 of them on a Dreadnought... Now, they are still priced at a huge premium, one of the most expensive weapons, but Str 6, AP 4 unless it Rends... 4 shots... "Eh" is the best thing I think I can say about it. Not strong enough to do much against anything but the lightest Vehicles, not enough to deny 3+ Armor saves in general... Not AAA... So, really looking at it as someone who is good at math and actually plays the game this is just something that makes no sense whatever. Seem that they are costing it in that it has the potential to do 4 wounds at AP 2 to "whatever"... But that's a LOT of 6's to roll. Just not happening.
And of course the "meta" or design philosophy we are more or less forced into with this edition. Scoring units only really, and the Armies with strong Scoring options have a much easier time these days. IG, GK and Necrons are all really easy to field these days... The armies with the ability to make things Scoring like DA or Marines/Chaos are also pretty good, if more limited with the choices being made for the player if they choose the options... I guess these days when I am building an army, if it is NOT scoring, I have to have a REALLY good reason to bring it at all before I seriously consider them... Liking my BA with lots of choices as "Troops", but with all of the "can never score" ones really they are a bit worse off than most other Armies... But Jump Infantry is pretty good as a Scoring option, at least locally... Eh, too tired right now to go further, but something to expand on I think...
Kind of brings me to where I am with the game itself. Maybe we have been playing the Forgeworld stuff for long enough that we have a bit more available to us WRT Fliers and defense against them... The Hyperion missile turrets are cheap and REALLY powerful... Not as powerful I think as the Fliers themselves are, or at least the Fliers we see on the table... Vendettas, Heldrakes,Necrons the occasional Storm Raven and... Yeah, that's pretty much it. The ones that have come out in the 6th Ed other than the Heldrake are pretty expensive and weak overall... So, probably what was intended and well balanced. Problem is that the ones that are coming up from the 5th edition are simply too powerful and cheap in comparison. Maybe they'll update this all in the upcoming "Flier Compendium" coming up next week, but being the cynic I am, I suspect it will simply be reprinted rules and nothing at all new.. No points adjustments, as GW is loathe to make changes on the fly, even to save their own cash cow game... To a point I can see that as some games I have played in the past had the feel of perpetual "beta" as the developers kept making changes on the fly, FAQs became the rulebook, and that probably killed the system... But I think that not making changes and NOT admitting that there might be a problem will kill this game.
I have to wonder if the developers and play testers are playing the same game we are really... I know in typical English fashion, GW holds "competitive play" in a great deal of disdain... (yes, I'm mostly Scottish... Some English, Irish, etc., but mostly Highlander :-) )... A lot of things do not really make sense... Assault Cannons being the one that sticks out to me at the moment assembling Deathwing... At one time, it WAS the single most powerful weapon in the game. 3 follow fire dice, Str 8, -5 save modifier and d12 wounds per hit? Not as bad as the original rules where it was just a "keep rolling until you roll a 1"... It would keep firing until you ran out of targets or failed to hit or wound... 2nd edition was insane (the first rules I have up there) where you could put 2 of them on a Dreadnought... Now, they are still priced at a huge premium, one of the most expensive weapons, but Str 6, AP 4 unless it Rends... 4 shots... "Eh" is the best thing I think I can say about it. Not strong enough to do much against anything but the lightest Vehicles, not enough to deny 3+ Armor saves in general... Not AAA... So, really looking at it as someone who is good at math and actually plays the game this is just something that makes no sense whatever. Seem that they are costing it in that it has the potential to do 4 wounds at AP 2 to "whatever"... But that's a LOT of 6's to roll. Just not happening.
And of course the "meta" or design philosophy we are more or less forced into with this edition. Scoring units only really, and the Armies with strong Scoring options have a much easier time these days. IG, GK and Necrons are all really easy to field these days... The armies with the ability to make things Scoring like DA or Marines/Chaos are also pretty good, if more limited with the choices being made for the player if they choose the options... I guess these days when I am building an army, if it is NOT scoring, I have to have a REALLY good reason to bring it at all before I seriously consider them... Liking my BA with lots of choices as "Troops", but with all of the "can never score" ones really they are a bit worse off than most other Armies... But Jump Infantry is pretty good as a Scoring option, at least locally... Eh, too tired right now to go further, but something to expand on I think...
Tuesday, February 5, 2013
1850 Deathwing vs Chaos (Khorne)
Well, the League Organizer wound up working late so we just played a "skirmish" League match... So, 1850 but not for flags on the campaign map... I wound up playing Joe L's Chaos Marines... Mission was Kill Points. From memory he fielded:
Chaos Lord (jump pack, Daemon Weapon of some sort, MoK)
Jump troops, ~10 with a few Melta Guns
3 Squads of Khorne Marines, Champion in each, Power Sword, Plasma, Melta? 2 in Rhinos
Heldrake
Daemon Allies:
Blood Thirster
10 Blood Letters w/ icon
I brought:
Belial (SB/Sword)
Deathwing (10, CML, H Flamer, 4 TH/SS)
Deathwing (10, 2 CML, 4 TH/SS)
Tac Squad (ML w/ Flak)
LRC
Techmarine w/Power Field
Command Squad w/Banner of Devastation
Ravenwing Squadron w/Attack Bike (MM)
2 Hyperion ML turrets
I got first turn, deployed the LRC w/ Banner front and center, with the TM and Command Squad embarked. The Ravenwing flanked the tank, and Scout moved to cover the front. The Attack Bike moved to my Right flank to deal with the single Rhino full of Khorne hate... Realized the Scout move is 12", so a bit more flexibility... Basically, the Bolters (Hurricane and Bike) opened up on the Jump Troops at 24" range... The Lord survived along with a few of his lads... But most of them disappeared in a fine red mist. The Attack bike zoomed up, got a penetrating hit on the Rhino and following that with a 1 for the Damage result... Did that a lot :-)
His turn one was mostly just killing my Ravenwing... Lord and remaining Jumpers offed my bikers, the Rhino dismounted the passengers who shot the Attack Bike off the board... Not bad, but it left a lot of his Infantry out in the open for my next turn. Speaking of which, Belial deployed with the CML/HF squad and they set themselves down perfectly to split fire. The flamer caught pretty much the whole Berserker squad who dismounted to shoot up my bikes, Storm Bolters went there as well... CML went into the Lord and single remaining Jumper. LRC and Tac Squad shot up the Blood Thirster and my second Deathwing dropped to the middle of the field to throw a few missiles out there, but really just set up a second big, heavy Squad... Basically, the Tac Squad shot their Salvo Bolters at the Thirster, it failed it's Grounding test. Then the LRC and Deathwing unloaded on it... It had one wound remaining at the end of that as the AAA did Jack AND Shit. So, the "Roll lots of dice, looking for 6's" for the Flier...
Turn 3 was fairly brief as his Thirster died to overwatch fire trying to Assault Belial's Squad. Belial and his Lord faced off and the Fleshbane combined with the Preferred Enemy for me was just too good... Helped a LOT that his Lord only had Powered Armor, so the 4++ save was the best he had... And of course, having had to weather a LOT of fire getting there so I think he only had one Wound at that point... But 2 VP on that Challenge as Belial's Warlord Trait actually paid off. His Drake finally showed up, I shot it twice with AAA stripping a Hull Point, and I think in 4 I hit it a few more times, but removed the weapon forcing it to Reserves... Pretty
So, AA did it's job I guess, but it was a LOT more that I had primarily Terminator armor on the field. The fly by attacks are not an issue, he didn't really have an answer for the Raider and the Flamer being AP 3 is not so scary with 2+ everywhere... Have to say the Banner combo is absolutely amazing locally... I may have to bring in a Librarian with an Auspex to remove a bit of cover for the Salvo to hit...
Next week is the 750 point mini game followed by the separate table for the Tunnel game... Not so sure what will happen, but looking at another 11 model army, but Deep Striking in exactly where I want should mean I get there first...
Chaos Lord (jump pack, Daemon Weapon of some sort, MoK)
Jump troops, ~10 with a few Melta Guns
3 Squads of Khorne Marines, Champion in each, Power Sword, Plasma, Melta? 2 in Rhinos
Heldrake
Daemon Allies:
Blood Thirster
10 Blood Letters w/ icon
I brought:
Belial (SB/Sword)
Deathwing (10, CML, H Flamer, 4 TH/SS)
Deathwing (10, 2 CML, 4 TH/SS)
Tac Squad (ML w/ Flak)
LRC
Techmarine w/Power Field
Command Squad w/Banner of Devastation
Ravenwing Squadron w/Attack Bike (MM)
2 Hyperion ML turrets
I got first turn, deployed the LRC w/ Banner front and center, with the TM and Command Squad embarked. The Ravenwing flanked the tank, and Scout moved to cover the front. The Attack Bike moved to my Right flank to deal with the single Rhino full of Khorne hate... Realized the Scout move is 12", so a bit more flexibility... Basically, the Bolters (Hurricane and Bike) opened up on the Jump Troops at 24" range... The Lord survived along with a few of his lads... But most of them disappeared in a fine red mist. The Attack bike zoomed up, got a penetrating hit on the Rhino and following that with a 1 for the Damage result... Did that a lot :-)
His turn one was mostly just killing my Ravenwing... Lord and remaining Jumpers offed my bikers, the Rhino dismounted the passengers who shot the Attack Bike off the board... Not bad, but it left a lot of his Infantry out in the open for my next turn. Speaking of which, Belial deployed with the CML/HF squad and they set themselves down perfectly to split fire. The flamer caught pretty much the whole Berserker squad who dismounted to shoot up my bikes, Storm Bolters went there as well... CML went into the Lord and single remaining Jumper. LRC and Tac Squad shot up the Blood Thirster and my second Deathwing dropped to the middle of the field to throw a few missiles out there, but really just set up a second big, heavy Squad... Basically, the Tac Squad shot their Salvo Bolters at the Thirster, it failed it's Grounding test. Then the LRC and Deathwing unloaded on it... It had one wound remaining at the end of that as the AAA did Jack AND Shit. So, the "Roll lots of dice, looking for 6's" for the Flier...
Turn 3 was fairly brief as his Thirster died to overwatch fire trying to Assault Belial's Squad. Belial and his Lord faced off and the Fleshbane combined with the Preferred Enemy for me was just too good... Helped a LOT that his Lord only had Powered Armor, so the 4++ save was the best he had... And of course, having had to weather a LOT of fire getting there so I think he only had one Wound at that point... But 2 VP on that Challenge as Belial's Warlord Trait actually paid off. His Drake finally showed up, I shot it twice with AAA stripping a Hull Point, and I think in 4 I hit it a few more times, but removed the weapon forcing it to Reserves... Pretty
So, AA did it's job I guess, but it was a LOT more that I had primarily Terminator armor on the field. The fly by attacks are not an issue, he didn't really have an answer for the Raider and the Flamer being AP 3 is not so scary with 2+ everywhere... Have to say the Banner combo is absolutely amazing locally... I may have to bring in a Librarian with an Auspex to remove a bit of cover for the Salvo to hit...
Next week is the 750 point mini game followed by the separate table for the Tunnel game... Not so sure what will happen, but looking at another 11 model army, but Deep Striking in exactly where I want should mean I get there first...
Saturday, February 2, 2013
Painting projects, fliers, campaigns and contests :-)
On contests, I wound up winning the Wolf Scout and Samurai from Muninn's Brush ... Probably not telling my wife :-) She feels that the hobby area of the basement is really too crowded now... But to be fair, my hobbies include ancient weapons, old firearms AND miniatures... Right now restoring several old rifles (1890's Krag-Jorgenson rifle, US issue during the Spanish American war one of them), getting things ready for my "Klingon Wall" in the basement when I get around to finishing it... Thanks for the Scout!
Finishing up my Consecrators (Dark Angels)... Not a lot changed for me, NOT a complete repaint, so just the few new pieces to be painted and touched up... Basically I need to piece together the few new pieces like a banner bearer/command squad. As it happens, I have 40 or so ancient Powered Armor Marines that haven't seen the field for 3 editions in that army :-)... Now, they're not too bad overall just have one major problem...
The Chaos Heldrake... Purpose built to kill PA troopers, so being out in the open or even in cover means nothing at all... Looking like I will be fielding some Rhinos for the AA missiles to get launched out of for a bit at least... Need to break out some more of the hulls from deep storage and paint them up I guess... Until then, more Terminator suits hit the field for me given the sheer number of these bloody things prowling locally at least... It's clearly viewed by many as being under costed as I regularly see 2 of them across the table, usually with a third flier in a Vendetta. While I like the Ally rules in general, this is where it gets a bit tiresome... Seeing the exact same cookie cutter "ally groups" for a lot of folks. It's a bit boring seeing the exact same under costed things all over the place. Oh look, another IG ally with cheap Vets for the BS 4 and cheap Special Weapons fired out of the Chimera and/or a blob led by a Marine for ATSKNF/Stubborn/Fearless... How original. And a Vendetta or three AND Rambo? Yeah, didn't see that coming :-)... Not sure how I am feeling about the upcoming Flier book. On one hand I am hoping they actually bring up the points for the 5th ed fliers that are clearly not costed on the same paradigm as the current ones. I mean comparing the DA "dog-fighter" in the Nephilim to the IG Vendetta... Yes, the DA does have a special rule that might in some circumstances actually bring down enemy fighters... With it's ONE TL Las Cannon. Or the IG can just shoot it down with it's THREE TL Las Cannons. Oh, and the DA flier that is inferior in almost every respect costs 50+ points more... So, not sure why people would field that if they can just do the safe alternative in fielding a small IG Kampfgruppe with the clearly superior Vendetta... But like I said, it gets a bit boring seeing the same things over and over...
But back to the painting :-) Yes, my Wolves are moving closer to the fore... Praetorian IG are MUCH closer to complete. Liking the Minwax for the quick and really pretty nice coating it puts on the minis. So, I'll actually have a BUNCH of stuff fully painted ready to go. Sadly, my Wolves are not one of them. Being my first 40K army, I do think it is time for me to bring them up to a more modern and well painted standard... Just not so sure they are really playable in the current environment. :-) Kind of bringing me full circle, I got back into the game mid 5th edition using the "unusable" 3rd ed Codex and did really well. Think I will enjoy the challenge for a bit at least using the 5th ed Codex in the current environment... A bit at least, at this point I am not so sure they will be able to survive the Heldrakes... Guess we'll see what happens with the Flier expansion...
Finishing up my Consecrators (Dark Angels)... Not a lot changed for me, NOT a complete repaint, so just the few new pieces to be painted and touched up... Basically I need to piece together the few new pieces like a banner bearer/command squad. As it happens, I have 40 or so ancient Powered Armor Marines that haven't seen the field for 3 editions in that army :-)... Now, they're not too bad overall just have one major problem...
The Chaos Heldrake... Purpose built to kill PA troopers, so being out in the open or even in cover means nothing at all... Looking like I will be fielding some Rhinos for the AA missiles to get launched out of for a bit at least... Need to break out some more of the hulls from deep storage and paint them up I guess... Until then, more Terminator suits hit the field for me given the sheer number of these bloody things prowling locally at least... It's clearly viewed by many as being under costed as I regularly see 2 of them across the table, usually with a third flier in a Vendetta. While I like the Ally rules in general, this is where it gets a bit tiresome... Seeing the exact same cookie cutter "ally groups" for a lot of folks. It's a bit boring seeing the exact same under costed things all over the place. Oh look, another IG ally with cheap Vets for the BS 4 and cheap Special Weapons fired out of the Chimera and/or a blob led by a Marine for ATSKNF/Stubborn/Fearless... How original. And a Vendetta or three AND Rambo? Yeah, didn't see that coming :-)... Not sure how I am feeling about the upcoming Flier book. On one hand I am hoping they actually bring up the points for the 5th ed fliers that are clearly not costed on the same paradigm as the current ones. I mean comparing the DA "dog-fighter" in the Nephilim to the IG Vendetta... Yes, the DA does have a special rule that might in some circumstances actually bring down enemy fighters... With it's ONE TL Las Cannon. Or the IG can just shoot it down with it's THREE TL Las Cannons. Oh, and the DA flier that is inferior in almost every respect costs 50+ points more... So, not sure why people would field that if they can just do the safe alternative in fielding a small IG Kampfgruppe with the clearly superior Vendetta... But like I said, it gets a bit boring seeing the same things over and over...
But back to the painting :-) Yes, my Wolves are moving closer to the fore... Praetorian IG are MUCH closer to complete. Liking the Minwax for the quick and really pretty nice coating it puts on the minis. So, I'll actually have a BUNCH of stuff fully painted ready to go. Sadly, my Wolves are not one of them. Being my first 40K army, I do think it is time for me to bring them up to a more modern and well painted standard... Just not so sure they are really playable in the current environment. :-) Kind of bringing me full circle, I got back into the game mid 5th edition using the "unusable" 3rd ed Codex and did really well. Think I will enjoy the challenge for a bit at least using the 5th ed Codex in the current environment... A bit at least, at this point I am not so sure they will be able to survive the Heldrakes... Guess we'll see what happens with the Flier expansion...
Wednesday, January 30, 2013
1850 DA, next week...
So, reflecting on last weeks game I think that while making Deathwing and Ravenwing "Troops" is really nice, the 215 points Azrael costs was just way too much to not hit the table. Yes, I probably played wrong, so I am not totally discounting the usefulness of the Commander... But having Belial hit the table on turn 1/2 exactly where I want him to be? And then fighting for the bulk of the game, or at least until he dies :-) makes more sense to me. Still not 100% sure it is something that will be able to beat things like the Necron Air circus, or the local IG hordes... More specifically, the AV 14 tanks that are becoming popular locally... Drop in, get a side shot maybe, hope for Melta/Multi Melta to survive long enough to matter... Having Terminator armor is nice, but roll enough dice and 1's WILL come up. Looking at fewer than 30 bodies total for the army at 1850, so those will all hurt.
Looking at:
Belial
Deathwing Squad (10, 2 CML, several TH/SS, probably at least 4)
Deathwing Squad (5, Heavy Flamer, a few TH/SS)
Deathwing Command Squad (Banner of Devastation, Champion, Heavy Flamer)
LRC (NOT a dedicated Transport, but maybe?, Melta, dozer)
Techmarine (Servo, Power Field)
Tactical Squad (5, ML w/Flak)
Ravenwing Squadron (Attack Bike, MM, Melta in Squadron)
I'm NOT sold on using the DW Command Squad over just a regular one, or even dropping that particular aspect altogether. I'd probably swap out the LRC for a regular LR and hope to roll 6's when shooting at fliers I guess...
I am also kind of building it with the Campaign in mind. I am facing off against several Chaos forces, including my primary enemy. I forget my overall Warlord Trait, but in essence, I am hunting him... Good bonuses for holding territories next to his, and better ones for actually defeating him in a game... Since I just took a Hive City from him last turn, I'm set up fairly well for that. And I have a number of "Bastion" spots, giving me free Bastions in games there... Thinking my small Tac Squad foes there and fires Flak missiles, Heavy Bolters and Quad Gun/Las Cannon at fliers/reserves... Seeing Rambo, I mean "Marbo" a lot these days in IG forces, so having something to potentially shoot him out of existence is a REALLY nice thing for me... Getting out of paying the "Aegis Tax" for not bringing fliers... And since I have yet to actually declare an attack in the Campaign, seems likely someone will try to come and take one of my good spots from me. Plus side, no Planetstorm silliness attacking my Hive City as it incorporates a Shield Generator... I could I guess bring extra Heavies or the like, but really not all that impressed with my choices there.
Kind of riffing off of that, my choices of Fliers is extremely limited overall. Yes, I do have 1+ (the + is the extras I am building as Airships) for the Praetorians, I have a converted Valkyrie to stand in as a Storm Raven for my GK/BA forces... But, honestly feeling that my IG/GK forces would be overpowered and over represented in our local environment. My Fleshtearers are brutal. Not a lot of local players are REALLY prepared for the way I play them. Adding in a Raven to transport my DC DN and probably an Assault Squad? Not sure I'd play it if I were not playing a "I'm making a point" Army and just going out to be a complete dick and destroy the opposition as quickly as possible... So, no, not going to play that force I think... And the DA fliers just look craptastic on paper. NOT saying they needed to be "OMG BROKEN" level to have people play them, but really, 180 points for a very lackluster dog-fighter or 160 for a "ground attack" aircraft that is inferior in every way to the IG Valkyrie/Vendetta? Yes, the IG flier is TOO good, and I don't think they need to make all of them too good, but playing now, I do not often see an army across the table without one of them as an "ally"... Not the only reason to ally with IG of course, but I can erase blobs, even fearless ones easily enough, the filers are just a PITA... The current crop of fliers is overall "Eh"... The Chaos Heldrake is a bit over the top against Powered Armor armies not bringing Transports, but that can be dealt with I think... The DA/Marine fliers are just a bit confusing to me. Overpriced garbage. And limited in which flavor of Marine gets the bloody things? Not the strategy I would have taken as a business trying to sell more models, but...
Speaking of odd business decisions, rumor has a direct only "flier compendium" coming out in a few weeks. Now, I am no longer involved in a game store, but I REALLY would much prefer to purchase through my local store as that is where I play, and the owners are friends. Even without knowing them, the "buy where you play" thing is big for me. some other stores over the years where there was either no or limited play space or where some/all of our game group were "no longer welcome"... Well, then buying online was the way I'd go. If the rumors are correct, barring Dave getting a bunch of orders together and being able to get them in bulk from GW, does not seem that we CAN order through him. That does not even get me started on the whole releasing broken, silly rules and selling expensive "patches" later on like the liquid Green Stuff and "Finecast"... Once upon a time, they released updated online as freely downloadable PDF's... Wouldn't think that would have cost much at all, and would retain a fair number of customers. To say nothing of the ability to release say, an Eldar tank kit with the rules online so they do not have to wait for the next iteration of the Codex... :-) Not that this will happen again... But kind of frustrating as a player not having "legal" access to the rules for things like the last wave of fliers (Marine/Ork ones) without hunting down a back issue of their advertisement/magazine... :-) I guess I am missing the "good old days" a bit, maybe it will all work out...
Looking at:
Belial
Deathwing Squad (10, 2 CML, several TH/SS, probably at least 4)
Deathwing Squad (5, Heavy Flamer, a few TH/SS)
Deathwing Command Squad (Banner of Devastation, Champion, Heavy Flamer)
LRC (NOT a dedicated Transport, but maybe?, Melta, dozer)
Techmarine (Servo, Power Field)
Tactical Squad (5, ML w/Flak)
Ravenwing Squadron (Attack Bike, MM, Melta in Squadron)
I'm NOT sold on using the DW Command Squad over just a regular one, or even dropping that particular aspect altogether. I'd probably swap out the LRC for a regular LR and hope to roll 6's when shooting at fliers I guess...
I am also kind of building it with the Campaign in mind. I am facing off against several Chaos forces, including my primary enemy. I forget my overall Warlord Trait, but in essence, I am hunting him... Good bonuses for holding territories next to his, and better ones for actually defeating him in a game... Since I just took a Hive City from him last turn, I'm set up fairly well for that. And I have a number of "Bastion" spots, giving me free Bastions in games there... Thinking my small Tac Squad foes there and fires Flak missiles, Heavy Bolters and Quad Gun/Las Cannon at fliers/reserves... Seeing Rambo, I mean "Marbo" a lot these days in IG forces, so having something to potentially shoot him out of existence is a REALLY nice thing for me... Getting out of paying the "Aegis Tax" for not bringing fliers... And since I have yet to actually declare an attack in the Campaign, seems likely someone will try to come and take one of my good spots from me. Plus side, no Planetstorm silliness attacking my Hive City as it incorporates a Shield Generator... I could I guess bring extra Heavies or the like, but really not all that impressed with my choices there.
Kind of riffing off of that, my choices of Fliers is extremely limited overall. Yes, I do have 1+ (the + is the extras I am building as Airships) for the Praetorians, I have a converted Valkyrie to stand in as a Storm Raven for my GK/BA forces... But, honestly feeling that my IG/GK forces would be overpowered and over represented in our local environment. My Fleshtearers are brutal. Not a lot of local players are REALLY prepared for the way I play them. Adding in a Raven to transport my DC DN and probably an Assault Squad? Not sure I'd play it if I were not playing a "I'm making a point" Army and just going out to be a complete dick and destroy the opposition as quickly as possible... So, no, not going to play that force I think... And the DA fliers just look craptastic on paper. NOT saying they needed to be "OMG BROKEN" level to have people play them, but really, 180 points for a very lackluster dog-fighter or 160 for a "ground attack" aircraft that is inferior in every way to the IG Valkyrie/Vendetta? Yes, the IG flier is TOO good, and I don't think they need to make all of them too good, but playing now, I do not often see an army across the table without one of them as an "ally"... Not the only reason to ally with IG of course, but I can erase blobs, even fearless ones easily enough, the filers are just a PITA... The current crop of fliers is overall "Eh"... The Chaos Heldrake is a bit over the top against Powered Armor armies not bringing Transports, but that can be dealt with I think... The DA/Marine fliers are just a bit confusing to me. Overpriced garbage. And limited in which flavor of Marine gets the bloody things? Not the strategy I would have taken as a business trying to sell more models, but...
Speaking of odd business decisions, rumor has a direct only "flier compendium" coming out in a few weeks. Now, I am no longer involved in a game store, but I REALLY would much prefer to purchase through my local store as that is where I play, and the owners are friends. Even without knowing them, the "buy where you play" thing is big for me. some other stores over the years where there was either no or limited play space or where some/all of our game group were "no longer welcome"... Well, then buying online was the way I'd go. If the rumors are correct, barring Dave getting a bunch of orders together and being able to get them in bulk from GW, does not seem that we CAN order through him. That does not even get me started on the whole releasing broken, silly rules and selling expensive "patches" later on like the liquid Green Stuff and "Finecast"... Once upon a time, they released updated online as freely downloadable PDF's... Wouldn't think that would have cost much at all, and would retain a fair number of customers. To say nothing of the ability to release say, an Eldar tank kit with the rules online so they do not have to wait for the next iteration of the Codex... :-) Not that this will happen again... But kind of frustrating as a player not having "legal" access to the rules for things like the last wave of fliers (Marine/Ork ones) without hunting down a back issue of their advertisement/magazine... :-) I guess I am missing the "good old days" a bit, maybe it will all work out...
Tuesday, January 29, 2013
1850 DA AAR
So, played the "We Shoot Things" list last night against a pretty good Chaos force... Just going from memory, but this is approximately what he had:
Chaos Lord (Daemon weapon, Juggernaut, 4++ save of some sort, Mark of Khorne)
Chaos Lord (Daemon weapon/Black Mace?, Juggernaut, 4++ save of some sort, Mark of Khorne)
15 Cultists
15 Cultists
2 Predators (AC, 2x LC)
Vindicator
2 Heldrakes (bale flamers)
IG allies
CCS in Chimera (plasma/meltas)
Vet Squad in Chimera (plasma/2 Melta)
Manticore
Vendetta
So, lots of Fliers...
He had first turn and set up for an alpha strike... I seized. My bikes that had Scout moved up were in position and ended up winning me the game. The Attack bike caught the Manticore in the 12" "sweet spot" for the easy kill netting me "First Blood". The other bikes I had ran as Combat Squadrons so 2 groups of 3. Made my first big mistake when I did not just shoot the first Lord out of existence... I shot each at one Cultist Squad with the LRC pitching in to wipe the closest one off the table. I should have pushed the 48 TL Bolter shots all onto the one squad along with the TLAC/MM/etc... So, killed off all of one and almost all of the other Cultist squads, but I REALLY should have just focused in on the one to kill the Lord.
That brings me to me second big mistake... I rolled the LRC forward, leaving the Tactical Squads in their cover... They did move out some trying to keep up, but... In any case they got strung out and left behind by the uber-tank...
Brings me to the Drakes. So, they fly "near" something, a wing clipping it maybe, and it's d3+1 Str 7 AP3 hits. Movement phase, so absolutely NOTHING I as the defending player can do about it. Not a HtH attack, no opposed rolling, just automatic hits, take the damage and move on. Then of course there's the 360 degree Torrent Flamer hitting at Str 6 AP 3... Kind of makes Power Armor completely worthless. I was planning on running my Wolves at some point, but to be honest I think they'd just die. FAQ killed the Wolf Scouts completely as the Interceptor Quad Guns are not really as big an issue these days... Not bringing the Wolf Guard with them means just the 4+ Armor on the Scouts can strike behind the lines, and no Assault out of Reserve so "less useful" to "why bother"... Seeing a lot of folks getting more and more frustrated with the game, and the "slightly overpowered" flier armies in general... The now insane prices for the models is not helping, but the rules are really just lagging. Maybe in a few months it will even out, but it is NOT there right now...
With the DA, I am left feeling that it is Terminator Armor or nothing. Bikes are expensive and 3+ Armor, so they are looking like a "bring a Squadron" for the Bolters and Teleport Homers... But do not count on them living with all the things that ignore cover AND the 3+ save... OTOH, they do bring speed and a really good first strike ability to my force...
Far and away the "Death Star" I brought in the form of the LRC with the Command Squad/Banner of silly shooting/TechMarine w/ Power Field was the MVP for me... It DID take 2 hull points of damage over the course of the game, but I made a LOT of 4++ saves, and the TM has the 4+ to repair the vehicle instead of shooting and since he cannot shoot inside the vehicle... Not so sure it will be something I keep running, but to be honest I am pretty happy with it all things considered. 24" range only, so a bit limiting there... Any light Infantry caught by this should really just die though... So many shots hitting that even Heavy Infantry have to be careful... Thinking that next week I run this, maybe back to Belial and Terminators for the most part... Could be a really brutal "rush forward and hope for the best" army... 2 DW Squads, Belial, the LRC of silliness and a bike Squadron... NOT a lot of models, but might work...
Chaos Lord (Daemon weapon, Juggernaut, 4++ save of some sort, Mark of Khorne)
Chaos Lord (Daemon weapon/Black Mace?, Juggernaut, 4++ save of some sort, Mark of Khorne)
15 Cultists
15 Cultists
2 Predators (AC, 2x LC)
Vindicator
2 Heldrakes (bale flamers)
IG allies
CCS in Chimera (plasma/meltas)
Vet Squad in Chimera (plasma/2 Melta)
Manticore
Vendetta
So, lots of Fliers...
He had first turn and set up for an alpha strike... I seized. My bikes that had Scout moved up were in position and ended up winning me the game. The Attack bike caught the Manticore in the 12" "sweet spot" for the easy kill netting me "First Blood". The other bikes I had ran as Combat Squadrons so 2 groups of 3. Made my first big mistake when I did not just shoot the first Lord out of existence... I shot each at one Cultist Squad with the LRC pitching in to wipe the closest one off the table. I should have pushed the 48 TL Bolter shots all onto the one squad along with the TLAC/MM/etc... So, killed off all of one and almost all of the other Cultist squads, but I REALLY should have just focused in on the one to kill the Lord.
That brings me to me second big mistake... I rolled the LRC forward, leaving the Tactical Squads in their cover... They did move out some trying to keep up, but... In any case they got strung out and left behind by the uber-tank...
Brings me to the Drakes. So, they fly "near" something, a wing clipping it maybe, and it's d3+1 Str 7 AP3 hits. Movement phase, so absolutely NOTHING I as the defending player can do about it. Not a HtH attack, no opposed rolling, just automatic hits, take the damage and move on. Then of course there's the 360 degree Torrent Flamer hitting at Str 6 AP 3... Kind of makes Power Armor completely worthless. I was planning on running my Wolves at some point, but to be honest I think they'd just die. FAQ killed the Wolf Scouts completely as the Interceptor Quad Guns are not really as big an issue these days... Not bringing the Wolf Guard with them means just the 4+ Armor on the Scouts can strike behind the lines, and no Assault out of Reserve so "less useful" to "why bother"... Seeing a lot of folks getting more and more frustrated with the game, and the "slightly overpowered" flier armies in general... The now insane prices for the models is not helping, but the rules are really just lagging. Maybe in a few months it will even out, but it is NOT there right now...
With the DA, I am left feeling that it is Terminator Armor or nothing. Bikes are expensive and 3+ Armor, so they are looking like a "bring a Squadron" for the Bolters and Teleport Homers... But do not count on them living with all the things that ignore cover AND the 3+ save... OTOH, they do bring speed and a really good first strike ability to my force...
Far and away the "Death Star" I brought in the form of the LRC with the Command Squad/Banner of silly shooting/TechMarine w/ Power Field was the MVP for me... It DID take 2 hull points of damage over the course of the game, but I made a LOT of 4++ saves, and the TM has the 4+ to repair the vehicle instead of shooting and since he cannot shoot inside the vehicle... Not so sure it will be something I keep running, but to be honest I am pretty happy with it all things considered. 24" range only, so a bit limiting there... Any light Infantry caught by this should really just die though... So many shots hitting that even Heavy Infantry have to be careful... Thinking that next week I run this, maybe back to Belial and Terminators for the most part... Could be a really brutal "rush forward and hope for the best" army... 2 DW Squads, Belial, the LRC of silliness and a bike Squadron... NOT a lot of models, but might work...
Saturday, January 26, 2013
So, next week's Army... 1850 again...
Well, looking like nothing too bad on the rules questions I had... So looking like this will be what I am bringing:
Azrael
Command Squad (Banner of Devastation, Power Weapon maybe?)
Land Raider Crusader (MM)
Techmarine (Servo Harness, Power Field)
Deathwing Squad (10, 2 CML, 4 TH/SS?)
Tac Squad (10, ML w/ Flak, Flamer)
Tac Squad (10, ML w/Flak, Flamer)
Ravenwing Squadron (6 bikes, Attack Bike w/MM, Melta Gun)
Leaves me a few more points, and it is going to be a very "unsubtle" force... Techmarine gives me a 3+ cover save to park some of the lads in... Probably a Flak team, though maybe the Terminators against some forces... Terminators can DW Assault in on one of the many Teleport Homers I have out there, or just hole up and hold an objective. Everyone is a "Troop" selection, so I could potentially have 7 of them... A lot of them a bit weak, but... Plan is to park the Land Raider with Techmarine, Command Squad and probably Azrael in it at the front of my DZ... The Tactical Squads deploy around it, preventing Deep Strikers, and giving more Salvo Bolters... The Bikes Scout to the front to provide coverage there, and gaining the 4++ and making their Bolters Salvo as well...
Essentially, I have a metric crapton of Bolter fire, so it will be pretty deadly against Hordes... Most Marines will have a fairly hard time dealing with the sheer number of shots they can throw out... Fliers are going to be an issue, but can't be helped I think. Just kill off everything else...
Azrael
Command Squad (Banner of Devastation, Power Weapon maybe?)
Land Raider Crusader (MM)
Techmarine (Servo Harness, Power Field)
Deathwing Squad (10, 2 CML, 4 TH/SS?)
Tac Squad (10, ML w/ Flak, Flamer)
Tac Squad (10, ML w/Flak, Flamer)
Ravenwing Squadron (6 bikes, Attack Bike w/MM, Melta Gun)
Leaves me a few more points, and it is going to be a very "unsubtle" force... Techmarine gives me a 3+ cover save to park some of the lads in... Probably a Flak team, though maybe the Terminators against some forces... Terminators can DW Assault in on one of the many Teleport Homers I have out there, or just hole up and hold an objective. Everyone is a "Troop" selection, so I could potentially have 7 of them... A lot of them a bit weak, but... Plan is to park the Land Raider with Techmarine, Command Squad and probably Azrael in it at the front of my DZ... The Tactical Squads deploy around it, preventing Deep Strikers, and giving more Salvo Bolters... The Bikes Scout to the front to provide coverage there, and gaining the 4++ and making their Bolters Salvo as well...
Essentially, I have a metric crapton of Bolter fire, so it will be pretty deadly against Hordes... Most Marines will have a fairly hard time dealing with the sheer number of shots they can throw out... Fliers are going to be an issue, but can't be helped I think. Just kill off everything else...
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