Next Week, something completely different and the current meta?

So, looking to try something completely different…  Crimson Fists without Pedro Kantor.  Thinking that a Bike CPT gains me a Command Squad and access to Bike Squads (of 5 or more models) as Troops.

Captain (Bike, Primarch’s Wrath, LC)  145

Command Squad (Bikes, 3 Grav Guns, Melta Gun, Medic)  205

Bike Squad (8, Attack Bike w/MM, 2 Grav Guns) 253

Scout Squad (10, 4 Sniper, HB, Cloaks, LSS w/MM) 142+55

Bike Squad (8, Attack Bike w/MM, 2 Plasma Guns) 253

Centurion Devastators (LC, 2 Grav, Scope, ML) 290

Thunderfire Cannon  100

And…  Well, we tend to play at the 1850 level, so ~300 more points.  Hunter probably, or a Storm Raven for the last Heavy slot.  If Hunter then probably the Storm Talon and…  Well, more Cents?  Or the Legion again I suppose?  Dunno, something to think about…

Really, the above Army SHOULD be fielded as a White Scars one…  +1 cover save, Hit and Run, auto pass terrain tests and +1 Str Hammer of Wrath hits?  Essentially for free…  Yes, they lose the Tank Hunter for the Centurions and swap Bolters on Scouts for Shotguns I guess…  But my army is painted up AS Crimson Fists, so…

So, looking at the current local meta I think things are really starting to balance out.  Yes, the Marines still have to be aware of the Heldrake problem…  But at this point I do not feel totally outclassed by the Drakes.  Between my own fliers and some actual AAA I can field I have some things to threaten them and I’ve learned how to deal with them I guess…  Now, Chaos forces based on the Heldrakes fall pretty easily to the Tau and Eldar I think.  In turn, the Tau/Eldar based on the big nasty MCs they have fall to the Grav weapons fielded by the new Marines.  So, back to a more Rock-Paper-Scissors setup I think…  Necrons are still a tough army, but with the both massed and/or twin linked firepower and increased number of AA platforms or fliers I think their fliers are fairly weak.

Some of the assumptions made above really depend on a few very key rulings.  Primarily the one about “Ignores Cover” and that rule’s interaction with Vehicles.  RAW, it does specify “wound”, and as Vehicles do not have wounds it would in the strictest reading of the rules mean that it does not work against Vehicles.  This leads to silliness like Eldar Wave Serpents with Holo Fields sitting on a Skyshield Platform for the 2+ cover save in addition to the 4++ save the platform gives, should you get around the perimeter cover save…  THAT makes the Eldar stupidly overpowered, and it is not how we’ve been playing locally at least….  But that is not universal by any means.  The other is sort of related, the Grav weapons need some further clarification.  Do they ignore cover as they do NOT roll on the vehicle damage chart because they do not cause a glance or penetrating hit?  Also, should a vehicle get hit by 2 of them, does it take 2 Hull Points and immobilize the Vehicle OR does it take 3 HP as the second immobilized result strips another HP per the Vehicle damage chart?  I’d say it takes 3 HP because the result on the chart doesn’t specify “if this number is rolled”, and they recently FAQ’d rolling a 1 on difficult terrain for a Vehicle and immobilizing yourself does strip a HP as well…  So, IMO that would be consistent.  Yes, I know, applying a standard to which GW has not maintained over the years, consistency…  Still, would be a good thing I think to have officially clarified…

Battle Rep, Crimson Fists vs Chaos at 1850

Right, so played Joe L's Chaos Marines last night.  His list, from memory was:

Warp Smith with harness of doom, 5+ Inv
Land Raider
Squad of Marines with Melta and Flamer
Hell Brute w/Power Scourge
Hell Brute w/Plasma
3 Squads of Marines with Melta, Flamer in Rhinos w/Havoc Launchers
Obliterators
Vindicator
2 Heldrakes




I fielded my Crimson Fists:
Pedro Kantor
Honor Guard in Rhino
Tech Marine
Sternguard (10, 1 HF, 7 Combi Melta, 2 Combi Plasma, LC on SGT) in Drop Pod w/beacon
Scout Squad (10, cloaks, 4 Snipers, HB, Bolters on rest) in Land Speeder Storm w/HF
Scout Squad (10, Cloaks, 4 Snipers, ML, Bolters on rest) in Land Speeder Storm w/MM
Legion of the Damned (5, Melta, Plasma Cannon)
Hunter
Rifleman DN (2x TL AC)
Storm Talon (TL LC)
Thunderfire Cannon
Centurion Devastators (3, 2 Grav Cannon, 1 TL LC, Missiles all around, SGT w/scope)

Everything that could Combat Squad did.  Bolter Scouts flanked in the LSSs.

We played Hammer and Anvil (Long table) with Emperor's Will (2 Objectives).  He got first turn on a table with something like 14 pieces of terrain, so loads of ruins.  I upgraded 2 in my DZ and he vetoed one, so only the one om my left was 3+.  I deployed my Rifleman Honor Guard w/ Pedro in Rhino and the Thunderfire in that one along with the ML armed Combat Squad of Scouts.  Ruin on my right with the 4+ cover had the Centurions, Hunter and the HB armed Sniper Scouts...  Joe's Iron Warriors lined up with his Land Raider taking his far Left, flanked by 2 Rhinos and the DNs.  Oblits to his Center and the Vindicator flanked by a Rhino to his Right.

Night Fighting on turn one so there was a limited amount of damage done by the Iron Warriors...  Mostly they drove forward, popped smoke and bunched up as they rolled toward me the bulk on his Left towards my objective (guarded by the Centurions).  On my turn, the Sternguard dropped in near the center, scattering to my Left and the Vindicator.  It was a rough turn for Chaos.  The Heavy Flamer hit one of the DNs and the Vindicator that it was covering the Rear Arc of...  Rolled a 6 followed by another o destroy it for First Blood.  The Combi Meltas slagged the DN.  Pedro dropped his Orbital Bombardment into the mess on the Right...  Hit the Land Raider and a Rhino.  Stripped a hull point from a Rhino and the Raider passed it's cover save...  Then the Centurions opened up...  The Raider died after failing 4 cover saves.  To be fair, Night Vision made them hard saves, but 4 dice, nothing higher than a 2 doomed it.  So, did a lot of damage, but the Heldrakes haven't shown up.

Turn 2, his Drakes came in.  Flew over and flamed one Sternguard Combat Squad, wiping it out.  The second offed the bulk of a Sniper Scout squad.  His Warlord and squad hoofed it toward my Objective and took a bunch of wild shots into my Centurions   Oblits Plasma and Power Fists killed off the second Sternguard Squad combined with other fire from random Marines...  So, not a good day to be a Sternguard, but they did what they had to.  On my turn, the MM armed Speeder and the Legion arrived.  They wound up killing the second DN, an Oblit and put some damage into some of the trailing elements...  Keeping him from fully engaging my DZ...  The Centurions erased the bulk of the Warlord's squad and split fire into a Rhino with the Las Cannon.  The Hunter hit a Drake, but the 5++ saved it.  Moved Pedro and Co up to block and bait them a bit...  Mostly worked, should have gotten them out as the Rhino lacking the Assault Vehicle rule hurts a unit that WANTS to Assault.

Turn 3, his Drakes continued their rampage...  Finished my Scouts and...  Well, the Thunderfire saved and that was about it...  Rolled the Hunter back to keep it out of Melta range from his Marines, so it took a Glance being outside of 6"...  He destroyed Pedro's Rhino, and the lads hunkered down to wait...  The Oblits shot then charged Legionnaires...  And we bounced...Not a lot of damage to either side. On my turn, the Hunter MISSED, but put a marker onto a Drake.  The DN actually put a hull point onto the other...   Centurions erased another squad, and...  Well, things were winding down as we killed each other off...

Turn 4, one Drake left the second finished off a squad of Scouts that had a survivor or two around, the Centurions ignored it.  He chased the Hunter and immobilized it, but it lived being more than 6" again...  On my turn I killed his Warlord, the missile hit the Drake and the Hunter fired again to finish it off...  The last Rhino of his finally died and my Honor Guard charged in and killed off a squad of Chaos Marines.  I think my Legion finally died, but they kept his Oblits out of action for most of the game.   I made a major error and hopped out and claimed his objective.  So, on turn 5 his Drake came back and killed them all.  ALMOST cost me the game, I should have kept them in the Vehicle knowing I had the final turn.  But at this point (Turn 5) I had the ONLY troops left in the 5 Bolter Scouts in the second Vehicle...  Well, with First Blood, Warlord I wrapped it up...

Legion did well.  Died slowly, but I think the Multi Melta will be their weapon of choice.  No Cover saves and AP1?  Yes Please.  Centurions were probably way too good.  Sternguard?  Good, but I doubt they got back their points directly.  For the first time though, I was not overly concerned about the Heldrakes.  They killed a LOT, but a lot of that was my fault for deploying overly aggressively and stupidly in the case of the Scouts.  In the end, "It Will Not Die" and the 5++ saved them.  I splashed one, almost the second one and by the 5th turn I had all of my AAA ready to go and was left mostly with things not concerned with AP 3...    So, the lessons learned were that I need to play less aggressively with the Scouts...  Might be time to bring a Rhino or two with Tactical Marines...

So, now what?

UMkay, got to thinking over the weekend and here's what I plan on testing next along with some random thoughts...

Legion of the Damned:  125 points gets me 5 of them, 15 points for the Plasma Cannon and 10 for a Melta?  All have the Ignore Cover rule for shooting, so they have AP 1 and 2 weapons allowing NO cover saves...  Later game or if I drop onto an Enemy gun emplacement, I can steal it...  Have to Deep Strike, so not 100% happy about that as I like the OPTION to Deep Strike, but getting to re-roll the scatter and I will likely have a beacon on the table in any case...  3+/3++ saves, cause Fear and are Fearless.  Oh, and Slow and Purposeful...  So, not ALL good, no overwatch or running, but can fire Heavies on the move or as I Deep Strike in.  So, 150 points of non Scoring Infantry...  Going for the Line-breaker or the big disruption that this sort of thing should cause dropping in on the Enemy causes, we'll see if it is 150 points worth or not...

So, 1850 list:

Pedro  185

Sternguard (Combis, H Flamers, SGT w/ LC, Drop Pod w/beacon) 380-390

Scout Squad (10, cloaks, 4 Snipers, HB, Bolters for the rest)  142
  Land Speeder Storm (HF)  45

Scout Squad (10, Cloaks, 4 Snipers, HB, Bolters for the rest) 142
  Land Speeder Storm (MM) 55

Honour Guard   85
  Rhino  35

Thunderfire Cannon 100 (1169)

Centurion Devastators (Scope, 2 Grav, 1 LC, ML all around)  290

Storm Talon Gunship (Las Cannon)  140

Leaving me with a Hunter (75) and Rifleman DN (120) and... 1769 points

I should probably bring more Troops, but if I Combat Squad, I already have 6 (small) Squads to score, one more is unlikely to make THAT much a difference, and the one extra Heavy/Special Weapon with 4 more Bolter armed Marines is just not that impressive to me I guess...

So, comparing the Marine book to the current crop of books out there...

Against the Grey Knights, I feel that I am more than a match for the currently fielded version of Coteaz and Henchmen with Dreadknights, etc...  The only things I have had issue with are the Vindicare Assassin...  The Psykers are annoying, but really not that big of a deal.  But you start getting to a situation where too many of the basic rules of the game are simply broken by individual models and that throws off game balance a LOT.  Picking targets, NO "Look Out Sir", AP1, armor penetration of 3+4d6 Rending, destroying Inv saves, wounding on 2+?  Too many rule exceptions in a single model.  Frankly ANY rule exception is too many if you have built the system correctly...  Perfect timing, Coteaz's squad firing to full effect against ALL units coming from Reserve?  A bit much, but a known thing so easily avoided.  Should change to Intercept, so a single shot/model at one thing, but guessing this changes in next edition of codex...

Against Necrons?  Still an issue dealing with so many fliers, but the Hunter, Rifleman And my own fliers help level the field.  Tank Hunter is huge on the Centurions and the Sternguard usually get first blood, so close game becomes something slightly in my favor...  Tough army, but by no means unbeatable I think.

Eldar?  So much Str 6/7 shooting...  Fast moving, but fragile.  Hunter is rightly feared by them...  Wraith Knight is a joke against Grav weaponry...  So, another one that is a hard fight but should be winnable...

Tau?  Probably the hardest so far...  Though the Riptide should hide from Centurions...  So much shooting, so many things that break or "modify" basic game rules...  :-)  but that has been written about a lot so...

Chaos...  Well, took longer to write this up and actually played last night.  Iron Warriors themed list against my Crimson Fists with our own Tech Marines...  Basic list above, we played Emperor's Will on the long deployment (short board edges were our end zones...).  He fielded an armor heavy list with a Land Raider with the Chaos Tech, Nurgle Oblits, two more basic Troop squads in Rhinos w/havoc launchers, vindicator and..  Oh, yeah...  2 Heldrakes.  For the first time in a LONG time I didn't feel completely outclassed though.  Hunter, Rifleman and Talon were all real threats.  I also had a bunch of 2+ armor around...  It was a bloody fight, but Sternguard got first blood before being wiped out by Heldrakes.  The drakes also killed off my sniper combat squads, but not a surprise.  Splashed one drake, chased the other off and still had all of my AAA ready for it when it came back...  Him Raider died to Centurions...  Night Vision and Tank Hunter make it fairly easy to tag any vehicles, though his not rolling higher than a 2 on his 4 cover saves (smoke) doomed the vehicle...  Made a mistake deploying bolter Scouts from their Speeder too soon, so only one combat squad survived when we called it...  Should have sat the other Squad on the other objective ready to deploy out to win as I went second...

So far the stars in my list are:

Centurion Devastator squad...  Erase a squad/turn, kill Vehicles, split fire and night vision...  Expensive points wise and REALLY bad models (my opinion as always), but insanely powerful on the field...

Thunderfire Cannon...  Barrage 4, Str 6, almost never cover saves, and reinforce terrain...  For 100 points...  Easy choice.

Hunter...  Surprisingly, it has performed quite well for me.  Against a GK Much force it was useless after the Storm Raven was splashed, or so I thought...  Still a Tank, so tank shock is an option, and you can still snap fire the missiles...  But mostly mobile terrain.  Still, so many skimmers and fliers that 70 points is not a bad investment...

Pedro's orbital barrage has been good, but I expect people to figure this one out soon... Would be far better for a CM on bike or in Terminator Armor to be able to move and still fire it, but turn one, best not be bunched up or I will make you pay...

And...  That's about it...  The Legion did well, so will I think make them a regular thing for my lists.  Scouts are still "eh" overall.  Will try Tactical Squads next time I think replacing one Scout squad or perhaps the honor guard...  Though, having those lads around is just REALLY nice...

Realized belatedly that the one other major conclusion I came to was that the Storm Raven is going to be my flier of choice I think...  I have the Dust model that makes a really nice Talon stand-in, but at 140 points?  Armor 11, 2 HP?  And only the 2 weapons, one of which MUST be the overpriced Assault Cannon?  I'll take the TL Multi Melta and Las Cannon, thank you...  Oh, AND 4 one shot Missiles at Str 8 AP 2 please...  Yea, not quite as good as my Fleshtearer version with the AP 1 missiles, but hey, for only 60 points more than the very much substandard Talon?  Seems a simple enough choice...  Just having a hard time fitting all the toys on the motorcycle...

Another game and thoughts...

So, played GK last night...  From memory here's what he brought:

Coteaz
6 Henchmen squads:

1. 6 Crusaders, 5 Death Cult Assassins
2. 2 Jokero and 3 Plasma Cannons
3 & 4. Chimera loaded out with Storm Bolters and Special Weapons
5 & 6. Razorbacks loaded out with small squads
2 Rifleman DNs
Dreadknight with sword and flamer
Vindicare Assassin
Storm Raven


I brought my Crimson Fists again
Pedro
Honor Guard in Rhino
Sternguard kitted out and in Drop Pod
2 Scout squads, full, 5 Snipers 1 ML 1 HB, cloaks and Land Speeder Storms
Hunter
Centurion Devastators (4, 3 Grav 1 LC and all missiles and split fire)
Thunderfire Cannon
Extra Techmarine
Storm Talon w/ LC
Rifleman DN

Pretty standard setup, played Big Guns on the diagonal deployment.  I had a strong point with the Thunderfire and Rifleman in  the upper levels and the Rhino w/ Pedro and the Hunter on the ground floor to use the Orbital Strike.  With so many vehicles on his side, his DZ was REALLY crowded.  He went first, but really didn't do much with night fighting and the fact I was hiding DEEP in enhanced cover (3+ for the ruins).  My turn one was pretty good, the Orbital Strike  and the Sternguard dropping in...  Killed one Chimera and immobilized one of the DNs deep in his DZ behind blocking terrain.  The Sternguard took a bunch of wounds off of the Knight who died to a Sniper the next turn...  First blood being VERY important these days and all.  Pretty brutal game overall but going second and making a LOT of cover saves meant things like the DN and Thunderfire lasted a long time.  Never did kill the Vindicare, but I I think I finally offed almost all of his Troops and both DNs.

Storm Raven was killed by the Hunter and Talon.  Turns out Storm Shields make excellent parachutes.  But the big HtH threat was nullified when they crashed and got shot out of existence.

The Thunderfire was brutal.  After the light Infantry got shot out of their transports, it basically killed a squad/turn.  Turn one I think it stripped some hull points in the parking lot...  Should have offed the Vindicare sooner though.

What to test next?  Surprisingly I think the Legion of the Damned...  They Deep Strike in, and they all ignore cover...  Oh, and they can get a Plasma Cannon with their Slow and Purposeful...  Not too expensive, but I think it fits well with my army play style...

Overall, I am really liking the Marine codex...  I think it will be a fun one o play for a long time...

New Marines after a bit of testing...

Trying again....  Silly mobile app ate the last post...

So, now that I have a few games with the new Marine Codex, here is what I am finding... 

Imperial Fists chapter tactics are really quite good.  Rerolling 1's is not bad, and the Tank Hunter for free on the Centurion Devastators is huge.  Scoring Sternguard is good with my old Crimson Fists, though the Drop Pod going down to 10 capacity is painful.  Honor Guard is nice though and Pedro Kantor's once per game Orbital Barrage has proven useful now that I will actually use it... 

Troops are still a bit lacking.  Tac Marines are OK, cheap bodies to hold objectives really.  The overwhelming bulk of the actual work is done by Sternguard, Centurions and vehicles frankly, so I am torn between bringing the bare minimum and hiding them, or trying to flood the field with them....  Scouts are OK too...  So many ignore cover things these days, so the camouflage cloaks are less of a sure thing.  BS 3 makes them "eh" as snipers but at least they are cheap.  Heavy weapons are iffy with them, but I still take them.  Liking the Land Speeder Storm loaded out with 5 lads armed with bolters or shotguns zipping about the enemy backfield.  Heavy Flamer there is surprisingly effective, ignores the BS 3 of the Scout driver.

Heavy Weapons...  Who came up with the costs for these?  Looking over the book, Missile Launchers are 15 or 25 points if you want Flak missiles.  The Assault Cannon is also one of the more expensive upgrades...  In second edition it was the single most powerful weapon in the game, and we are still paying penance for that as Marine players.  Then it ignored almost all armor (-5 save mod, so Terminators could save on 8+), did d12 wounds and could fire up to nine shots...  Now, it is an upgraded Heavy Bolter.  IMO, the ancient Heavy Bolter is really the worst heavy weapon of this (and several previous) edition.  So being slightly better than the worst one is not really a "premium" thing.  Neither the ML or the AC ignore 3+ armor usually... Yes, the AC rends, but counting on 6's is not a successful strategy I think.  And Flak rounds should have been included as a free upgrade to ALL ML, much the same way "flier" was included as a free and massive upgrade for the Necron Croissant and IG fliers...  :-). Just my opinion of course per usual, what would I know I'm just an Engineer...

Centurion Devastator is really powerful.  Finding at least with my Crimson Fists that mixing in one Las Cannon with 2 Grav ones, oh and Missiles for everyone...  Sgt gets the split fire/night fire upgrade, and turn one Tank Hunters surprise a fair number of folks...  :-)   bonus of night vision for the Chapter Master should he be say, attached to them on turn one for his single shot...  The old Planetstorm miniatures I am fielding as the Centurions look pretty good, and seeing the ancient Fantasians hit the field after so long is good...  Oh, and Tank Hunter works for emplaced weapons fired...  Aegis Gun gets really good with rerolls...  Just saying :-)

Finding the old Assault Marines to be OK as well...  As it happens I have "a few" that have been shelved for several editions now...  Time to paint them up as CF I guess.

Thunderfire Cannon is amazing.  I played the Barrage wrong last week, forgot it was the lay the template and scatter from the first hit...  Would have made no difference in general as large flier bases like on the Riptide or big vehicles will just get hit 4 times, regardless if the first shot hits...  And the packed blob of Kroot were doomed either way as I aimed for the center of the blob...  Going forward, it limited my shooting at single or well spaced small units, but in general it makes little difference for the usual targets...

I was surprised that the Stalker is as good as it has been for me.  Lacking Interceptor I assumed it would be poor at best...  Not so much really...  So many skimmers on the field these days, having either 4 twin linked shots at full BS or 8 twin linked shots at BS 2?  The Hunter is also darn good and scares the Heldrakes locally...  Problem is no squadrons and the Heavy Support slot is tight...

Marines first game reflections...

So, I set up a 1500 point list to test the new book against Tau...

1500

Pedro Kantor     185

Sternguard (10, Combi weapons, drop pod)  365

Centurion Devastators (Missile Launchers, Grav, Omni Scope) 290

Scout Squad (10, cloaks, 4 Snipers, 5 Shotguns, Heavy Bolter)  143
  Land Speeder Storm (Heave Flamer) 45

Scout Squad (10, cloaks, 4 Snipers, 5 Shotguns, missile launcher)  143
  Land Speeder Storm (Melta) 55


Honor Guard for Pedro, in a Rhino

Thundrefire Cannon

Hunter AA tank

And...  I think that was about it...  Mission was kill points, and I played silly wanting to try out the new toys.  Barely scraped out a win, but mostly due to so many easy to snag kill points on my side...  5 man Scout squads are not all that hard to deal with, and Speeders are "fragile"...  But the Army performed quite well.

Stars:

1. Thunderfire Cannon...  It didn't kill EVERYTHING, but 4 Barrage templates/turn put a MAJOR hurt on the Tau.  It's kill tally included the last wound on a Riptide, a Piranha, 18/20 Kroot in a single salvo, and various assorted other Tau... The no cover save round might well be obsolete as the cover is measured from the center of the blast for barrage...  I think I fired the Str 6 AP 5 round all day and there was never cover to worry about...  Well, Speeders got their save :-)...
2. Chapter Master's Orbital Bombardment... Turn one, no night fighting, Pedro riding in the Rhino...  Clear LOS to the Enemy Command group chock full of Crisis Suits, Drones, etc...  Hit dead on for the Str 10 AP 1 "Ouch"...  Dropped the big squad down to a handful of survivors.  Also the AP 4 Storm Bolter he has?  REALLY nice in a field of 4+ save bodies...
3. Centurion Devastators...  Fear factor alone...  I set them up in reinforced ruins with the Thunderfire.  Held them back too long, but there was NOTHING set up within 24 of them, so I had a big bubble of "This zone is protected".  When they got to shoot, they were deadly beyond words.  Hitting Fire Warriors in the open?  Evaporate that squad...  Tank Hunter for free?  Thank you, Missiles away... Split fire too?  Thanks!   I should have been FAR more aggressive with them and just marched them up the field with Pedro and company...  Well, I did, but I should have started with that in mind and on turn one.  By the end of the game, they were in the enemy DZ killing the few remaining things in range...

Other than that...  Well, I need to paint up some more of the old school lads as "Honour Guard" for the Chapter Master.  The Scouts did well enough I think.  I was generally happy with their results, though I played them badly in some ways...  Might use Bolters for the Bolter Drill and have to remember that Bolt Pistols are I think covered...  Storm Bolters?  Damn, have to look that up later...  Guessing that a Squad or two of Tac Marines will be needed, and with the cheapness of Assault Marines and the fact that I happen to have "a few" on a shelf primed and ready for paint...  Been there for a LONG time, 3 editions I think, but who knows they might even work :-)...

Note, the Hunter AA tank did fairly well...  Ended up getting Melta'd before the end of the game, but being able to put a Str 7 AP2, Armorbane missile on target is nice.  Skimmers everywhere with Eldar, Tau and Necrons being the "power armies" at the moment.  So, for 70 points?  Worth it.  Lack of a way to remove annoying cover saves, lack of Interceptor and useless against non flier/skimmer are all very real drawbacks, but it's a start for the lads.  I think the days of Heldrakes roaming the skies with impunity are over.  At least I feel like I have something that CAN threaten the thing...

'course, just my impressions and opinions as always, YMMV...

New Marine book, first impressions...

So, got the book at the Armored Gopher...  Looking quite good.  Did get to see a few games played with them in our wee tournament...  First impressions:

The Hunter (AAA Rhino Variant)...  70 points, and given the current state of the game with all kinds of Fliers and Skimmers everywhere, Str 7 and Armor Bane starts looking good.  Eldar and Tau skimmers being everywhere and of course Necron fliers/skimmers being what they are...  But that leads to...

Heavy Support slots are going to be precious.  There are just 3 slots and with the Centurion Devastators, AAA tanks, Storm Ravens and Thunderfire Cannon all in this slot...

Thunderfire changed a bit, gained Barrage, but looks like the Techmarine manning it is not a Techmarine, but rather a "Techmarine Gunner"...  And he does not get the bolster defenses, IC rules, etc...  But still, 100 points seems a bargain for the Barrage 4 weapon of doom...

So, on to Troops...  This I think is going to be a hard one for me as a Crimson Fists player, my Sternguard will be Scoring, and I am looking at running Scouts.  The Combat Squad rules have changed a bit, but nothing too bad.  For 100 points I can get 5 Scouts AND their Dedicated Transport in the Land Speeder Storm...  Thinking that I will be fielding some of the lads with Bolters given that the IF Chapter Tactics are re-rolling 1's on the Bolter shots, and with the open topped Transport I should be able get a fair number of shots off...  Snipers are going to be "eh" I think still...

Will have to throw something together for Monday...