UMkay, got to thinking over the weekend and here's what I plan on testing next along with some random thoughts...
Legion of the Damned: 125 points gets me 5 of them, 15 points for the Plasma Cannon and 10 for a Melta? All have the Ignore Cover rule for shooting, so they have AP 1 and 2 weapons allowing NO cover saves... Later game or if I drop onto an Enemy gun emplacement, I can steal it... Have to Deep Strike, so not 100% happy about that as I like the OPTION to Deep Strike, but getting to re-roll the scatter and I will likely have a beacon on the table in any case... 3+/3++ saves, cause Fear and are Fearless. Oh, and Slow and Purposeful... So, not ALL good, no overwatch or running, but can fire Heavies on the move or as I Deep Strike in. So, 150 points of non Scoring Infantry... Going for the Line-breaker or the big disruption that this sort of thing should cause dropping in on the Enemy causes, we'll see if it is 150 points worth or not...
So, 1850 list:
Pedro 185
Sternguard (Combis, H Flamers, SGT w/ LC, Drop Pod w/beacon) 380-390
Scout Squad (10, cloaks, 4 Snipers, HB, Bolters for the rest) 142
Land Speeder Storm (HF) 45
Land Speeder Storm (HF) 45
Scout Squad (10, Cloaks, 4 Snipers, HB, Bolters for the rest) 142
Land Speeder Storm (MM) 55
Land Speeder Storm (MM) 55
Honour Guard 85
Rhino 35
Rhino 35
Thunderfire Cannon 100 (1169)
Centurion Devastators (Scope, 2 Grav, 1 LC, ML all around) 290
Storm Talon Gunship (Las Cannon) 140
Leaving me with a Hunter (75) and Rifleman DN (120) and... 1769 points
I should probably bring more Troops, but if I Combat Squad, I already have 6 (small) Squads to score, one more is unlikely to make THAT much a difference, and the one extra Heavy/Special Weapon with 4 more Bolter armed Marines is just not that impressive to me I guess...
So, comparing the Marine book to the current crop of books out there...
Against the Grey Knights, I feel that I am more than a match for the currently fielded version of Coteaz and Henchmen with Dreadknights, etc... The only things I have had issue with are the Vindicare Assassin... The Psykers are annoying, but really not that big of a deal. But you start getting to a situation where too many of the basic rules of the game are simply broken by individual models and that throws off game balance a LOT. Picking targets, NO "Look Out Sir", AP1, armor penetration of 3+4d6 Rending, destroying Inv saves, wounding on 2+? Too many rule exceptions in a single model. Frankly ANY rule exception is too many if you have built the system correctly... Perfect timing, Coteaz's squad firing to full effect against ALL units coming from Reserve? A bit much, but a known thing so easily avoided. Should change to Intercept, so a single shot/model at one thing, but guessing this changes in next edition of codex...
Against Necrons? Still an issue dealing with so many fliers, but the Hunter, Rifleman And my own fliers help level the field. Tank Hunter is huge on the Centurions and the Sternguard usually get first blood, so close game becomes something slightly in my favor... Tough army, but by no means unbeatable I think.
Eldar? So much Str 6/7 shooting... Fast moving, but fragile. Hunter is rightly feared by them... Wraith Knight is a joke against Grav weaponry... So, another one that is a hard fight but should be winnable...
Tau? Probably the hardest so far... Though the Riptide should hide from Centurions... So much shooting, so many things that break or "modify" basic game rules... :-) but that has been written about a lot so...
Chaos... Well, took longer to write this up and actually played last night. Iron Warriors themed list against my Crimson Fists with our own Tech Marines... Basic list above, we played Emperor's Will on the long deployment (short board edges were our end zones...). He fielded an armor heavy list with a Land Raider with the Chaos Tech, Nurgle Oblits, two more basic Troop squads in Rhinos w/havoc launchers, vindicator and.. Oh, yeah... 2 Heldrakes. For the first time in a LONG time I didn't feel completely outclassed though. Hunter, Rifleman and Talon were all real threats. I also had a bunch of 2+ armor around... It was a bloody fight, but Sternguard got first blood before being wiped out by Heldrakes. The drakes also killed off my sniper combat squads, but not a surprise. Splashed one drake, chased the other off and still had all of my AAA ready for it when it came back... Him Raider died to Centurions... Night Vision and Tank Hunter make it fairly easy to tag any vehicles, though his not rolling higher than a 2 on his 4 cover saves (smoke) doomed the vehicle... Made a mistake deploying bolter Scouts from their Speeder too soon, so only one combat squad survived when we called it... Should have sat the other Squad on the other objective ready to deploy out to win as I went second...
So far the stars in my list are:
Centurion Devastator squad... Erase a squad/turn, kill Vehicles, split fire and night vision... Expensive points wise and REALLY bad models (my opinion as always), but insanely powerful on the field...
Thunderfire Cannon... Barrage 4, Str 6, almost never cover saves, and reinforce terrain... For 100 points... Easy choice.
Hunter... Surprisingly, it has performed quite well for me. Against a GK Much force it was useless after the Storm Raven was splashed, or so I thought... Still a Tank, so tank shock is an option, and you can still snap fire the missiles... But mostly mobile terrain. Still, so many skimmers and fliers that 70 points is not a bad investment...
Pedro's orbital barrage has been good, but I expect people to figure this one out soon... Would be far better for a CM on bike or in Terminator Armor to be able to move and still fire it, but turn one, best not be bunched up or I will make you pay...
And... That's about it... The Legion did well, so will I think make them a regular thing for my lists. Scouts are still "eh" overall. Will try Tactical Squads next time I think replacing one Scout squad or perhaps the honor guard... Though, having those lads around is just REALLY nice...
Realized belatedly that the one other major conclusion I came to was that the Storm Raven is going to be my flier of choice I think... I have the Dust model that makes a really nice Talon stand-in, but at 140 points? Armor 11, 2 HP? And only the 2 weapons, one of which MUST be the overpriced Assault Cannon? I'll take the TL Multi Melta and Las Cannon, thank you... Oh, AND 4 one shot Missiles at Str 8 AP 2 please... Yea, not quite as good as my Fleshtearer version with the AP 1 missiles, but hey, for only 60 points more than the very much substandard Talon? Seems a simple enough choice... Just having a hard time fitting all the toys on the motorcycle...
Nice write-up- I can't wait to read how the LotD performed. I feel your pain with regard to the Raven- TF Cannons are SO good that its hard not to max them out in the heavy slot. I'm going to field two Talons in my army...with Tigurius they are sure to enter play AFTER an opponent's fliers- perfect!
ReplyDelete:-) My 5th ed CF army had 2 of the Thunderfire Cannon... Was REALLY powerful then, but with the new Barrage rules? Well, I am likely to continue running one as the Centurions are awesome for this environment and... Well, my Raven is likely the third to come out for me...
ReplyDeleteLoD were a min sized unit with a Melta and Heavy Plasma or Plasma Cannon :-) Been playing too long, but the Conversion Beam Armed model became a PC for me. They followed the Sternguard in on the Locator Beacon, killed a DN, Rhino and tied up Oblits for several turns buying me time to move other elements in to kill the one Oblit that wound up surviving the combat... Surprising how well they did as Vets with Storm Shield equivalent and no cover save weapons... The Plasma Cannon was good, but the fact that there was no Infantry anywhere near to shoot mean I'll likely run with a Multi Melta for some games... Locally, we run a lot more Vehicle heavy armies... Fearless was useful on an effectively suicide unit, Fear not so much.