Wolves are doing "OK", and I may well use them next week. I DO like the Wolf Priest mit Jaeger saga, and Wolf Scouts I think will also do well enough to justify their being fielded... Will still get murdered by aircraft though... Might even stop raining by then so I can ride my bike out...
Looking at breaking out my old Crimson Fist force:
Pedro Kantor
Scout Squad (5, shotguns, Heavy Bolter)
Scout Squad (10, cloaks, 9 snipers, Heavy Bolter)
Sternguard (10, 2 Heavy Flamers, 6 Combi Melta, 2 Combi Plasma, SGT w/LC, Drop Pod)
Thunderfire Cannon
and ?
Thinking Land Speeder Storm for the Shotgun squad and maybe an Attack Bike? I could drop the one Scout Squad to 5 men and take a Vindicator or the like I guess... Liking the ability to drive forward and drop the big Str 10 AP 1 Ord template... Might come in handy for 125 points... Still have 55 points, not sure what non useless thing I can get...
Low model count army, and the bulk of the actual Troops are just regular Scouts... Too many things these days taking away the cover save, so might go "poorly", but might actually work... OTOH, Scoring Sternguard can be brutal dropping in on someone and combat squadding...
Thursday, April 18, 2013
Tuesday, April 16, 2013
Game play issues, long random post :-)
Mkay, kind of just killing time before next meeting, so...
Wondering if I am missing something, but there seems to be some things that just do not make sense to me...
Comparing Chaos to Loyalist Terminators. Chaos has by default the "Combi Bolter", so twin linked bolter. Loyalists have the "Storm Bolter". Combi Bolter, looking at the math, I get one shot at >12" to 24" range that hits something like 90% of the time (8/9). Storm Bolter for out to 24" range has the Assault 2, so 2 shots at the usual BS 4. Been a while since I took Statistics or Math, but I'm thinking the odds of at least one hit are (1 - [1/3*1/3]) or 8/9... The same odds for a single hit from the Combi Bolter... Getting TWO hits, your odds are somewhat worse, so 4/9? The Loyalist weapon is slightly better for that range bracket, but within 12" range when the Combi Bolter fires twice with twin linking? The Chaos version is clearly superior at the shorter range bracket, and enough so that I would question why I would want to ever run a Storm Bolter over a Combi Bolter. Mind, the reality is both are pretty crap weapons in the grander scheme, but on a Terminator at least I do have to question why I would go away from the working version to one that may be slightly better at longer range, but clearly worse where the bulk of my shooting actually occurs? Started thinking about this looking at my Wolves where I CAN get a bunch of Combi weapons, though not a Combi Bolter. For balance I can see why GW would not change the SB rules given the Grey Knights and the huge mass of them they could field on "non Terminator" models... Would I pay a few more points to swap CB for SB? Maybe... I DO think it should have been a default option, to allow the Loyalists to keep the CB over the SB if they want...
Keeping on the Terminator weapons, I've previously gone over how I feel about the once mighty Assault Cannon... Currently, 4 shots is nice, but needing a 6 on the to wound/armor penetration roll to do much of anything makes it "less useful" as far as I am concerned. Str 6 AP 4 just doesn't cut it these days especially given the 24" range and the Rending shots are still just AP 4, and so less likely to actually destroy a Vehicle rolling on the chart vs. taking hull points... And since I'm looking for 6's a lot of the time anyway to do anything to Vehicles... Needs a range boost, Str boost and something helping with Vehicles... Until then, I cannot see paying an additional 30 points and giving up the (admittedly crap) Storm Bolter for the "gee, I hope I roll lots of 6's" weapon. In general the new Assault Cannon compares unfavorably to the "older" Reaper class Autocannon. Once again, fewer shots, but in this case higher Str and 50% greater range? Yes, loses Rending, so cannot ever actually touch AV 14... OK. But I think I'd rather be able to ping lighter armor more regularly... And of course the extra range would be really nice...
Cyclone took a hit as well, though it is still useful. AP 3 makes the Krak missiles less useful for taking down vehicles, but they still actually kill Marines, so... Not TOO bad, but when compared to some of the more modern choices, it is simply overpriced. But this and the Heavy Flamer are the ones that seem close enough to actually use...
Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield... With the game going away from HtH, not nearly so useful I think. Giving up all shooting attacks is bad, but the 3++ and "I Don't Care" weapon... Worth 45 points on a Terminator. Worth 63? No. Wolves get to customize the hell out of their Terminators, but we do have to pay a really heavy cost to do so. Lightning Claws are 48 points on either Terminator or Powered Armor... Yeah, the LC are slightly better than "Vanilla" ones, but all of the LC took a pretty serious hit in the age of AP on powered weapons... NOT so bad a hit as the "Power Maul" of course... AP 4 on a Powered Weapon? Tre' Craptastic. AND the fact that all of my Chaplain types are stuck with it? Why? Why would I field a standard weapon incapable of actually punching through Powered Armor? Yes, Str 6 so it is not complete crap, but really? Playing a lot with Wolf Priests in my force and finding them losing combats because they cannot ignore 3+ armor...
:-) Mkay, mostly unfocused free riffs there, but a start I think...
Wondering if I am missing something, but there seems to be some things that just do not make sense to me...
Comparing Chaos to Loyalist Terminators. Chaos has by default the "Combi Bolter", so twin linked bolter. Loyalists have the "Storm Bolter". Combi Bolter, looking at the math, I get one shot at >12" to 24" range that hits something like 90% of the time (8/9). Storm Bolter for out to 24" range has the Assault 2, so 2 shots at the usual BS 4. Been a while since I took Statistics or Math, but I'm thinking the odds of at least one hit are (1 - [1/3*1/3]) or 8/9... The same odds for a single hit from the Combi Bolter... Getting TWO hits, your odds are somewhat worse, so 4/9? The Loyalist weapon is slightly better for that range bracket, but within 12" range when the Combi Bolter fires twice with twin linking? The Chaos version is clearly superior at the shorter range bracket, and enough so that I would question why I would want to ever run a Storm Bolter over a Combi Bolter. Mind, the reality is both are pretty crap weapons in the grander scheme, but on a Terminator at least I do have to question why I would go away from the working version to one that may be slightly better at longer range, but clearly worse where the bulk of my shooting actually occurs? Started thinking about this looking at my Wolves where I CAN get a bunch of Combi weapons, though not a Combi Bolter. For balance I can see why GW would not change the SB rules given the Grey Knights and the huge mass of them they could field on "non Terminator" models... Would I pay a few more points to swap CB for SB? Maybe... I DO think it should have been a default option, to allow the Loyalists to keep the CB over the SB if they want...
Keeping on the Terminator weapons, I've previously gone over how I feel about the once mighty Assault Cannon... Currently, 4 shots is nice, but needing a 6 on the to wound/armor penetration roll to do much of anything makes it "less useful" as far as I am concerned. Str 6 AP 4 just doesn't cut it these days especially given the 24" range and the Rending shots are still just AP 4, and so less likely to actually destroy a Vehicle rolling on the chart vs. taking hull points... And since I'm looking for 6's a lot of the time anyway to do anything to Vehicles... Needs a range boost, Str boost and something helping with Vehicles... Until then, I cannot see paying an additional 30 points and giving up the (admittedly crap) Storm Bolter for the "gee, I hope I roll lots of 6's" weapon. In general the new Assault Cannon compares unfavorably to the "older" Reaper class Autocannon. Once again, fewer shots, but in this case higher Str and 50% greater range? Yes, loses Rending, so cannot ever actually touch AV 14... OK. But I think I'd rather be able to ping lighter armor more regularly... And of course the extra range would be really nice...
Cyclone took a hit as well, though it is still useful. AP 3 makes the Krak missiles less useful for taking down vehicles, but they still actually kill Marines, so... Not TOO bad, but when compared to some of the more modern choices, it is simply overpriced. But this and the Heavy Flamer are the ones that seem close enough to actually use...
Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield... With the game going away from HtH, not nearly so useful I think. Giving up all shooting attacks is bad, but the 3++ and "I Don't Care" weapon... Worth 45 points on a Terminator. Worth 63? No. Wolves get to customize the hell out of their Terminators, but we do have to pay a really heavy cost to do so. Lightning Claws are 48 points on either Terminator or Powered Armor... Yeah, the LC are slightly better than "Vanilla" ones, but all of the LC took a pretty serious hit in the age of AP on powered weapons... NOT so bad a hit as the "Power Maul" of course... AP 4 on a Powered Weapon? Tre' Craptastic. AND the fact that all of my Chaplain types are stuck with it? Why? Why would I field a standard weapon incapable of actually punching through Powered Armor? Yes, Str 6 so it is not complete crap, but really? Playing a lot with Wolf Priests in my force and finding them losing combats because they cannot ignore 3+ armor...
:-) Mkay, mostly unfocused free riffs there, but a start I think...
Grey Hunters for the win, but...
Played Wolves last night again... Partner and I both brought a single HQ and only Troops... So, Grey Hunters. Lots and lots of Jaegers... I fielded my Wolf Priest and a foot squad to take advantage of the flanking move he gives them with Saga of Jaeger... One full squad in Rhino and two in Razorbacks... Fully loaded out with options for power weapons, MotW, special weapons, etc...
We won the game based on setup... 5 objectives, we had 3 in our dz, they castled to avoid my partner's drop pod assault... He brought 3 pods :-) .... And my flankers to distract... They tried to pry us off of one objective, but my Razorback protected the squad and allowed us to counter drop and kill their assault force. After that it was mostly cleanup... They killed my flankers eventually, but the Priest held for several HtH rounds, buying valuable time and holding their fast reaction forces in place... So, heavy losses but playing the mission won the game...
Course, no enemy fliers or heavy armor... Wolves are still solid Infantry, and loaded out they match well against enemy assault specialists... I'm not at all convinced that an army built to take down MEQ Infantry wouldn't just destroy my lads in detail. The Tau in particular seem quite suited for this, as are/were the IG and GK that are popular locally. Chaos, with the exception of the Heldrake I think I could match well against. That however... Flanking tricks, going back to mostly Mech... Helps, but I think that someone who builds their Chaos force right will tear my Wolves up.
DA are such a low model count army for me that I think they will not be able to hold in the long term given the modern volume of fire. I WILL roll 1's eventually :-)... So, they are a "neat" niche army for me, rotating them back to the shelf I think.
IG? Yeah... Just got the new bike, and smaller saddlebags than the old Cruiser's hard luggage... The backpack I could probably bring a fair sized force with, but... :-) The force would be a hard one to pack onto the bike... Amusing, but... Guess I'll see what I end up getting repainted before having to re watch "Zulu" for inspiration...
So, leaves my Fleshtearers and Crimson Fists... Until the Tau, I would have said the BA Codex was still decent, if used aggressively... Now? I am honestly concerned about the amount of "Intercept", Marker Light silliness and Overwatch they have access to... I'm just not seeing a rosy future for any army counting on Assault... Fausts? Well, lots of scoring units, but still mostly just 3+ armor... One shot with the suicide drop pods, if it works, it works REALLY well, else... Well :-) A short game in any case...
We won the game based on setup... 5 objectives, we had 3 in our dz, they castled to avoid my partner's drop pod assault... He brought 3 pods :-) .... And my flankers to distract... They tried to pry us off of one objective, but my Razorback protected the squad and allowed us to counter drop and kill their assault force. After that it was mostly cleanup... They killed my flankers eventually, but the Priest held for several HtH rounds, buying valuable time and holding their fast reaction forces in place... So, heavy losses but playing the mission won the game...
Course, no enemy fliers or heavy armor... Wolves are still solid Infantry, and loaded out they match well against enemy assault specialists... I'm not at all convinced that an army built to take down MEQ Infantry wouldn't just destroy my lads in detail. The Tau in particular seem quite suited for this, as are/were the IG and GK that are popular locally. Chaos, with the exception of the Heldrake I think I could match well against. That however... Flanking tricks, going back to mostly Mech... Helps, but I think that someone who builds their Chaos force right will tear my Wolves up.
DA are such a low model count army for me that I think they will not be able to hold in the long term given the modern volume of fire. I WILL roll 1's eventually :-)... So, they are a "neat" niche army for me, rotating them back to the shelf I think.
IG? Yeah... Just got the new bike, and smaller saddlebags than the old Cruiser's hard luggage... The backpack I could probably bring a fair sized force with, but... :-) The force would be a hard one to pack onto the bike... Amusing, but... Guess I'll see what I end up getting repainted before having to re watch "Zulu" for inspiration...
So, leaves my Fleshtearers and Crimson Fists... Until the Tau, I would have said the BA Codex was still decent, if used aggressively... Now? I am honestly concerned about the amount of "Intercept", Marker Light silliness and Overwatch they have access to... I'm just not seeing a rosy future for any army counting on Assault... Fausts? Well, lots of scoring units, but still mostly just 3+ armor... One shot with the suicide drop pods, if it works, it works REALLY well, else... Well :-) A short game in any case...
Thursday, April 11, 2013
Ah, hobby funk...
Yeah, a bit annoyed in general... Guess I'm just not really finding I am enjoying 40K as much as I think I should be. More or less cycled through my older armies, though I have not fielded my Praetorians or Eldar much... Opposite problems there, the Eldar are at the moment hopelessly outclassed by the modern stuff and the IG are more powerful than ever I think. Now, one of the locals who is actually a really good player argues that the Valkyrie/Vendetta (though honestly, who has ever seen them fielded as anything other than a Vendetta for the 3 x TLLC?) is actually not overpowered, in fact severely overrated... Me, I come down on the other side of that argument as the Ven can do a LOT for it's 130 or so points, remain virtually immune to counterfire and be taken in such numbers as to just be silly... SO much cheaper than the modern DA/Marine fliers and while it does only have BS 2, the main weapons are twin linked and freaking Las Cannons! So, the AV 11 that is fairly standard on most modern fliers is just tissue paper really, and the Ven should down one enemy flier/turn on average rolls... Yes, it might well have issues taking down a wall of AV 14 tanks, but why bother? They do not score, just kill every Chimera then start shooting the smaller squads of Infantry that survive the explosions... The Transport capability, while neat, I think is really not necessary to the current environment... Saying that though, I can easily put the Platoon Command Squad with 4 flamers in there as a Scoring unit that I can air drop in if needed... A bit risky, or I can just hover the flier for the late game objective grab or toast up something that is packed in behind say, an Aegis line...
And, yes, I HAVE a Vendetta... Well, I magnetized the weapon load out, so could easily have either... It just feels "unfun" to play that, especially the way I'd play my IG "Light Rifles" company... Not really "light" or "rifles" :-) but... The Artillery in the form of a Basilisk and Colossus (IIRC, the Str 6, AP 3 no cover save one) as separate units... Probably a LR Vanquisher as a third Heavy. Having faced them, screened and screening my Artillery, I think it would be a terrifying thing... One Company Command squad with the Artillery officer at least, PCS to fly around... At least one big Platoon to mob up and screen the Arty. Heavy Weapons teams to set up and take pot shots and keep the Enemy honest... SO many shots outbound... Even at BS 3, should be quite good... Like I said, probably too good...
That's just it... Barring severely bad luck, it is a REALLY powerful army. Not unbeatable by any means, but at such a severe advantage against all but the over the top Necron flying circus... And even that I think has to be VERY careful...
Though, there are some interesting Kickstarters out there: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/649754189/28mm-steampunk-inspired-heavy-weapons-and-carriage?ref=users Looks neat, and VERY much in line with the Praetorians I have... I'll be keeping an eye on this, but with the motorcycle being picked up tomorrow... Money is a bit tighter until I sell the old bike...
So, getting a 1996 Honda Magna... 750cc engine, V4... So a bit more powerful than the Silverwing...
And, yes, I HAVE a Vendetta... Well, I magnetized the weapon load out, so could easily have either... It just feels "unfun" to play that, especially the way I'd play my IG "Light Rifles" company... Not really "light" or "rifles" :-) but... The Artillery in the form of a Basilisk and Colossus (IIRC, the Str 6, AP 3 no cover save one) as separate units... Probably a LR Vanquisher as a third Heavy. Having faced them, screened and screening my Artillery, I think it would be a terrifying thing... One Company Command squad with the Artillery officer at least, PCS to fly around... At least one big Platoon to mob up and screen the Arty. Heavy Weapons teams to set up and take pot shots and keep the Enemy honest... SO many shots outbound... Even at BS 3, should be quite good... Like I said, probably too good...
That's just it... Barring severely bad luck, it is a REALLY powerful army. Not unbeatable by any means, but at such a severe advantage against all but the over the top Necron flying circus... And even that I think has to be VERY careful...
Though, there are some interesting Kickstarters out there: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/649754189/28mm-steampunk-inspired-heavy-weapons-and-carriage?ref=users Looks neat, and VERY much in line with the Praetorians I have... I'll be keeping an eye on this, but with the motorcycle being picked up tomorrow... Money is a bit tighter until I sell the old bike...
So, getting a 1996 Honda Magna... 750cc engine, V4... So a bit more powerful than the Silverwing...
Tuesday, April 9, 2013
Ever have one of those games?
:-) Where EVERYTHING that could go wrong did? Played partnered up with a DA player who brought a Ravenwing force... Seemed a fairly decent one, I'm still unconvinced that the Black Knights are at all worth it, but on paper they look neat... So, I had my Scouts behind enemy lines and my big Grey Hunter squad flanked with a Wolf Guard in Termi Armor and the Wolf Priest (who I had upgraded to Runic Armor)... They both arrived on Turn 2, catching the enemy in their DZ lining up for some REALLY good rear arc shots... Scouts missed with everything but the Plasma Pistol, which failed to penetrate the 11 Armor. Next turn they were wiped out by a single weapon... The Grey Hunters, despite a LOT of Preferred Enemy shooting, several Meltas, Plasma, etc... Hit a Tau skimmer with a 4+ cover save... All told with insane rolling on his part, a single HP got through (a Bolter glance). Next turn the squad dropped to 2 Grey Hunters and the Priest... Who split off and charged a separate unit as the Jaegers got shot out of existence on overwatch fire... Oh, and after their lone flier came in to wipe out 1 squad/turn for both turns it was there my sole remaining model, a Razorback decided to suicide by doing 2 HP to ITSELF... Twin linked Plasma Gun missed twice, snake eyes on re-roll followed by 2 fails on the "Gets Hot"... Yea. Perfect ending for that game though :-) If you are going to fail, do so in an epic fashion...
Mostly a lot of bad dice on our side and really good dice on theirs... Am thinking the Tau are going to be a powerful force though... A LOT of twin linking, and the ability to "cover" each other with a metric crapload of overwatch fire makes charging with small units a difficult thing... I think it will matter much less against a large force or one with really good defenses, etc...
Still having NO defenses against a flier for my Wolves really I think hurt almost as much as the failed end run... With complete impunity the IG flier was able to just roll in, destroy one small squad/turn and there was nothing at all I could realistically do to prevent it... Wonder if I will have to run a Land Raider or a Bastion to sit my AAA in... Might wind up running the Raider just to see...
Mostly a lot of bad dice on our side and really good dice on theirs... Am thinking the Tau are going to be a powerful force though... A LOT of twin linking, and the ability to "cover" each other with a metric crapload of overwatch fire makes charging with small units a difficult thing... I think it will matter much less against a large force or one with really good defenses, etc...
Still having NO defenses against a flier for my Wolves really I think hurt almost as much as the failed end run... With complete impunity the IG flier was able to just roll in, destroy one small squad/turn and there was nothing at all I could realistically do to prevent it... Wonder if I will have to run a Land Raider or a Bastion to sit my AAA in... Might wind up running the Raider just to see...
Monday, April 8, 2013
This week's 1k list... Wolves again...
So, looking at bringing the following:
Wolf Priest (Saga of the Hunter, has the 4++, Power Mace)
Grey Hunters (10, Plasma Pistol, Power Weapon, Flamer, Melta, MotW, Banner)
Grey Hunters (5, Razorback w/LC TLPG, Flamer, MotW)
Grey Hunters (5, Razorback w/ TLAC, Flamer, MotW)
Long Fangs (5, 3 ML, HB, SGT)
Wolf Guard (3, Combi Melta, PW?)
Wolf Scouts (Melta)
So, for 1000 points, a lot of bodies and even 2 light tank/transports... Counting on Flank/Behind Enemy Lines to deliver a lot of the lads where they need to go and frankly NOT be on the table getting shot up from the beginning... I'm not really liking the "light" Wolf Scouts, I'd like to throw some more points in there for things like MotW, a few Melta Bombs and Plasma Pistols, but the low points is REALLY a limiting factor here. Guessing they'll be a "line breaker" unit and something to try for a tank/camping unit kill... Still, just 5 guys in 4+ armor, so not something I'd be banking on. I'm much more confident in the 10 man Grey Hunter squad with attached Wolf Guard and Wolf Priest Outflanking. With the now mostly useless "senses", they'll likely come in on the side I want, and 12 guys fully kitted out in actual Powered Armor along with a few Characters to take challenges as needed... Well, guessing it will work out at least once before folks start putting their stuff in the center of the field to avoid my lads... Screens will work too, but really not so sure how often I'll be seeing them here locally for now... Gone are the days of IG "blobs" simply lining the DZ to keep out flankers. More realistic concern is that I may run into an IG (or other) tank parking lot and be unable to get to the important things, perhaps just hitting a Rhino/Chimera before getting shot out of existence... So, like I said, this thing I think has a limited number of uses before the locals at least react and have very solid plans to deal with my one trick Army...
Still, ~20 points left over... I can get Runic Armor for the Priest, I guess 2+ would be nice for him, just not so sure how often really... Another HB Long Fang would fit nicely, or perhaps a Plasma Pistol and Melta Bomb for the Scouts? Leaning toward more offensive firepower (Plasma Pistol/Melta), but the 2+/4++ might just give the Jaegers the staying power to win me some games... Doing the math however, I look better putting the Terminator Armor on the Wolf Guard as it comes to the same bloody point cost as I had them originally... +5 points to change the SB to Combi Weapon... So, that and Plasma Pistol in the Scouts I guess...
With enough more points of course, the Wolf Guard would have 5 members and one would be kitted out with Terminator Armor and a CML to get himself attached to the Long Fangs... Would likely also have the Flankers joined by a WG in Terminator Armor for the Combi Weapon and Power Weapon... They are prohibited from joining the Scouts in Terminator Armor, but nothing prevents Grey Hunters as far as I can see... Seems a bit silly, bulky Terminator Armor being snuck around to hit a flank, but no more silly than the Legion that used to be "Planetary Assault Specialists" now fearing teleporters and Jump Packs... So, at least I have the framework for 1500-1850 point games... We mostly play 1850 locally, so most of what I do is with that level in mind... Guessing my Heavies get the Vindicator and maybe a Predator? 2 Long Fang squads is neat, but with so bloody many of the Heldrakes locally, they simply cannot do heir jobs anymore... Elite might well get a DN... The TLAC mount is pretty stable, and will almost always put 3 Str 7 hits on target... May well never actually kill anything with AP 4, but light vehicles and maybe even light fliers may well be worried... I've never really been a fan of Lone Wolves, and ALWAYS bring Wolf Guard, so my Elites are pretty well set. Fast Attack? Eh... While I liked fielding my Rackham/Confrontation Wolfen as "Thunderwolf Cavalry, I see way too much locally that will just shoot them off the board. I can only make so many 3+/3++ saves... Speeders I have, and if I really feel like resurrecting one or three... "Eh" again. So fragile. I always joked they were my "guided missiles", and the new edition has really solidified that opinion for me... Bike squad? Maybe... Still not liking the silly shooting restriction, BS/WS 3 and higher cost overall... The Attack bike is cheap, but you get what you pay for. Worse than IG crew... Eh. The Land Raider as either a dedicated transport for the Wolf Guard or just a Heavy on it's own might be amusing... If I didn't regularly see 2-3 LR Vanquishers in several of the IG lists locally, the "Death Ray" weren't so bloody good, or there was some realistic defense against someone just dropping Melta on top of my position I could see bringing the 250+ point vehicle. I like them, I really do... Just that even with 4 HP, they mostly just die to Melta appearing before they really get rolling or do much of anything. Yes, I did the DA LR of silliness with the (for them ) IC Techmarine giving the 4++ save and repairs from inside the vehicle... DAMN expensive and while it usually worked for what it was, there were several instances of if simply being killed by say, a Necron Chariot fly by... Lacking however the IC status on my bloody Iron Priest and the 4++ save? Not yet... Maybe in a big enough game where I can realistically protect the tank...
OK, enough random long term planning, back to the game at hand... Still not a lot of heavy anti tank, nor do I really have an answer for the fliers other than trying to outlast them... I do think with the limits in the league I WILL have enough AT firepower, it is mostly the AAA that I am concerned about... Though I guess I can hope they bring an Aegis line and just walk on to steal the gun... Or that time runs out...
Wolf Priest (Saga of the Hunter, has the 4++, Power Mace)
Grey Hunters (10, Plasma Pistol, Power Weapon, Flamer, Melta, MotW, Banner)
Grey Hunters (5, Razorback w/LC TLPG, Flamer, MotW)
Grey Hunters (5, Razorback w/ TLAC, Flamer, MotW)
Long Fangs (5, 3 ML, HB, SGT)
Wolf Guard (3, Combi Melta, PW?)
Wolf Scouts (Melta)
So, for 1000 points, a lot of bodies and even 2 light tank/transports... Counting on Flank/Behind Enemy Lines to deliver a lot of the lads where they need to go and frankly NOT be on the table getting shot up from the beginning... I'm not really liking the "light" Wolf Scouts, I'd like to throw some more points in there for things like MotW, a few Melta Bombs and Plasma Pistols, but the low points is REALLY a limiting factor here. Guessing they'll be a "line breaker" unit and something to try for a tank/camping unit kill... Still, just 5 guys in 4+ armor, so not something I'd be banking on. I'm much more confident in the 10 man Grey Hunter squad with attached Wolf Guard and Wolf Priest Outflanking. With the now mostly useless "senses", they'll likely come in on the side I want, and 12 guys fully kitted out in actual Powered Armor along with a few Characters to take challenges as needed... Well, guessing it will work out at least once before folks start putting their stuff in the center of the field to avoid my lads... Screens will work too, but really not so sure how often I'll be seeing them here locally for now... Gone are the days of IG "blobs" simply lining the DZ to keep out flankers. More realistic concern is that I may run into an IG (or other) tank parking lot and be unable to get to the important things, perhaps just hitting a Rhino/Chimera before getting shot out of existence... So, like I said, this thing I think has a limited number of uses before the locals at least react and have very solid plans to deal with my one trick Army...
Still, ~20 points left over... I can get Runic Armor for the Priest, I guess 2+ would be nice for him, just not so sure how often really... Another HB Long Fang would fit nicely, or perhaps a Plasma Pistol and Melta Bomb for the Scouts? Leaning toward more offensive firepower (Plasma Pistol/Melta), but the 2+/4++ might just give the Jaegers the staying power to win me some games... Doing the math however, I look better putting the Terminator Armor on the Wolf Guard as it comes to the same bloody point cost as I had them originally... +5 points to change the SB to Combi Weapon... So, that and Plasma Pistol in the Scouts I guess...
With enough more points of course, the Wolf Guard would have 5 members and one would be kitted out with Terminator Armor and a CML to get himself attached to the Long Fangs... Would likely also have the Flankers joined by a WG in Terminator Armor for the Combi Weapon and Power Weapon... They are prohibited from joining the Scouts in Terminator Armor, but nothing prevents Grey Hunters as far as I can see... Seems a bit silly, bulky Terminator Armor being snuck around to hit a flank, but no more silly than the Legion that used to be "Planetary Assault Specialists" now fearing teleporters and Jump Packs... So, at least I have the framework for 1500-1850 point games... We mostly play 1850 locally, so most of what I do is with that level in mind... Guessing my Heavies get the Vindicator and maybe a Predator? 2 Long Fang squads is neat, but with so bloody many of the Heldrakes locally, they simply cannot do heir jobs anymore... Elite might well get a DN... The TLAC mount is pretty stable, and will almost always put 3 Str 7 hits on target... May well never actually kill anything with AP 4, but light vehicles and maybe even light fliers may well be worried... I've never really been a fan of Lone Wolves, and ALWAYS bring Wolf Guard, so my Elites are pretty well set. Fast Attack? Eh... While I liked fielding my Rackham/Confrontation Wolfen as "Thunderwolf Cavalry, I see way too much locally that will just shoot them off the board. I can only make so many 3+/3++ saves... Speeders I have, and if I really feel like resurrecting one or three... "Eh" again. So fragile. I always joked they were my "guided missiles", and the new edition has really solidified that opinion for me... Bike squad? Maybe... Still not liking the silly shooting restriction, BS/WS 3 and higher cost overall... The Attack bike is cheap, but you get what you pay for. Worse than IG crew... Eh. The Land Raider as either a dedicated transport for the Wolf Guard or just a Heavy on it's own might be amusing... If I didn't regularly see 2-3 LR Vanquishers in several of the IG lists locally, the "Death Ray" weren't so bloody good, or there was some realistic defense against someone just dropping Melta on top of my position I could see bringing the 250+ point vehicle. I like them, I really do... Just that even with 4 HP, they mostly just die to Melta appearing before they really get rolling or do much of anything. Yes, I did the DA LR of silliness with the (for them ) IC Techmarine giving the 4++ save and repairs from inside the vehicle... DAMN expensive and while it usually worked for what it was, there were several instances of if simply being killed by say, a Necron Chariot fly by... Lacking however the IC status on my bloody Iron Priest and the 4++ save? Not yet... Maybe in a big enough game where I can realistically protect the tank...
OK, enough random long term planning, back to the game at hand... Still not a lot of heavy anti tank, nor do I really have an answer for the fliers other than trying to outlast them... I do think with the limits in the league I WILL have enough AT firepower, it is mostly the AAA that I am concerned about... Though I guess I can hope they bring an Aegis line and just walk on to steal the gun... Or that time runs out...
Friday, April 5, 2013
Claws = Crap for Wolves?
:-) Yeah, trying hard to rebuild my ancient Wolves army... Finding the running theme of Claw = Crap though.
So, Blood Claws, I can have up to 15 crappy Marines. Iff I have 15, I can get a second Special Weapon, but I shoot WORSE than IG. At least around here, Vet Squads hit the field a lot... I can get a single Power Weapon... Yea? Oh, and unless I have them on leashes the give up their shooting attacks and try to charge. I can get a special character... But wait, the rules for Loki or Lukas do not actually work until he is alone or in a Challenge. They didn't work in 5th either, which led me to question whether the designers actually play the game... To create a unit with so many special rules and a really nice miniature only to find out that it is massively overpriced (in game, $ wise I was fine with the figure) and confusing as the special rules were things that will NEVER actually occur in the course of a normal game... In the edition the book was written in at least. Now, well, he is a Character and so can Challenge/Accept Challenges... So on the off chance you field them, AND he survives long enough to actually get into HtH, etc... Eh. Guessing I'll never see it actually fielded...
Sky Claws are overpriced Jump Infantry, and Swift Claws are overpriced Bikers... Guess the bikes at least suck less. Irks me as I still have the Jump Troops from 2nd edition, and I REALLY like Jump Troops... Just that they have the Blood Claw disadvantages... In one FAQ I WAS able to give a Wolf Guard a Jump Pack and assign him to the squad... Then it got erased a few days later... So, I can have wild berserkers on their own OR I could spend a bunch of points on an actual Character to kind of keep them in line until they get killed off.. Eh at best...
Wolf Claws? So re-rolling either the to hit or to Wound... I think I can honestly say I almost never use them as anything other than "Lightning Claws" for the re-roll on to wound, but... Not horrible, but I'm having a hard time seeing it as worth it :-)... A shame, I really like the weapon, just seldom use them, especially as they are AP 3 and by and large preclude shooting which the Wolves actually do quite well... NOT as well as my Grey Knights, whose "claws" do not in fact prevent the shooting...
:-) Painting coming along... Grey Hunters are actually looking "tabletop good"... Fur actually looks like fur, and fully painted army is looking possible... The vehicles on the other hand... Well, I have a LONG way to go on that...
So, Blood Claws, I can have up to 15 crappy Marines. Iff I have 15, I can get a second Special Weapon, but I shoot WORSE than IG. At least around here, Vet Squads hit the field a lot... I can get a single Power Weapon... Yea? Oh, and unless I have them on leashes the give up their shooting attacks and try to charge. I can get a special character... But wait, the rules for Loki or Lukas do not actually work until he is alone or in a Challenge. They didn't work in 5th either, which led me to question whether the designers actually play the game... To create a unit with so many special rules and a really nice miniature only to find out that it is massively overpriced (in game, $ wise I was fine with the figure) and confusing as the special rules were things that will NEVER actually occur in the course of a normal game... In the edition the book was written in at least. Now, well, he is a Character and so can Challenge/Accept Challenges... So on the off chance you field them, AND he survives long enough to actually get into HtH, etc... Eh. Guessing I'll never see it actually fielded...
Sky Claws are overpriced Jump Infantry, and Swift Claws are overpriced Bikers... Guess the bikes at least suck less. Irks me as I still have the Jump Troops from 2nd edition, and I REALLY like Jump Troops... Just that they have the Blood Claw disadvantages... In one FAQ I WAS able to give a Wolf Guard a Jump Pack and assign him to the squad... Then it got erased a few days later... So, I can have wild berserkers on their own OR I could spend a bunch of points on an actual Character to kind of keep them in line until they get killed off.. Eh at best...
Wolf Claws? So re-rolling either the to hit or to Wound... I think I can honestly say I almost never use them as anything other than "Lightning Claws" for the re-roll on to wound, but... Not horrible, but I'm having a hard time seeing it as worth it :-)... A shame, I really like the weapon, just seldom use them, especially as they are AP 3 and by and large preclude shooting which the Wolves actually do quite well... NOT as well as my Grey Knights, whose "claws" do not in fact prevent the shooting...
:-) Painting coming along... Grey Hunters are actually looking "tabletop good"... Fur actually looks like fur, and fully painted army is looking possible... The vehicles on the other hand... Well, I have a LONG way to go on that...
Wednesday, April 3, 2013
Wolves again, maybe it will work again...
Well, Bran Redmaw worked well in his own way... OK suspect that it would be far better at higher point levels though. 210 for one figure in a 1000 point game is a LOT... So, replacing him with a Wolf Priest who has "Saga of the Hunter" is 110 points. This gives me preferred enemy against one "type" and frankly the Chaplain types are all fairly well equipped for whatever they face... The WGBL could come close and likely be better if slightly more expensive... But the loss of Fearless and Preferred Enemy for the Grey Hunter squad makes it far less likely for me... So, I tool out a full squad of Jaegers... Bring a Wolf Guard and the Priest for the 12 man squad with a mess of special weapons and rules to hit a flank...
The cost reduction also gives me the ability to field a squad of Scouts... More bodies and "Behind Enemy Lines" with Meltas huge locally with so many tanks... Until people figure out that an Aegis line with Quad Gun kills the Scouts as s they deploy... But for now not seeing many of them...
Another note... I bring all of my Jaegers with MotW and special weapons... Plasma and/or power weapons if I can as well... Yes, fewer bodies overall but the lads are there to fight not just bring the Razorback and be technically scoring... Everyone shows up to fight in my lists... I guess I am also not so averse to bringing Plasma weapons, just that they cost a LOT more than I think they should given the cost of Melta... And since I actually have some of the ancient Wolf Scouts w/ Plasma pistols, guess I field them in place of my old Power Weapons that used to actually be quite good... Just not being able to assault out of Reserve these days means we're kind of stuck for at least a turn... MotW on the other hand... I'm going to have to modify the lone Sniper I have for the lads in some way I think... Spending the 3 points on the SR seems silly at times, but 36" range is nice later in the game or if I just roll REALLY badly on the board edge roll... And it's not like I am actually giving up a HtH attack with the d6+1 attacks for the Werewolf...
The cost reduction also gives me the ability to field a squad of Scouts... More bodies and "Behind Enemy Lines" with Meltas huge locally with so many tanks... Until people figure out that an Aegis line with Quad Gun kills the Scouts as s they deploy... But for now not seeing many of them...
Another note... I bring all of my Jaegers with MotW and special weapons... Plasma and/or power weapons if I can as well... Yes, fewer bodies overall but the lads are there to fight not just bring the Razorback and be technically scoring... Everyone shows up to fight in my lists... I guess I am also not so averse to bringing Plasma weapons, just that they cost a LOT more than I think they should given the cost of Melta... And since I actually have some of the ancient Wolf Scouts w/ Plasma pistols, guess I field them in place of my old Power Weapons that used to actually be quite good... Just not being able to assault out of Reserve these days means we're kind of stuck for at least a turn... MotW on the other hand... I'm going to have to modify the lone Sniper I have for the lads in some way I think... Spending the 3 points on the SR seems silly at times, but 36" range is nice later in the game or if I just roll REALLY badly on the board edge roll... And it's not like I am actually giving up a HtH attack with the d6+1 attacks for the Werewolf...
Tuesday, April 2, 2013
So, Wolves for the win, but...
Well, we won... so good I guess. But just not so sure, I fielded:
Bran Redmaw
10 man Hunter squad with 2 melts, MotW
2 x 5 man Hunter squads w saw, MotW in Razorbacks...
Long fangs w 4 ml
Wolf guard, 3 with combi weapons...
So essentially I have the one squad go behind enemy lines an Bran riding a flank with the second... Kind of counting on slow opponents who cannot take advantage of 2/3 of my points starting off the table... So, can win but still have some doubts... still, getting the lads painted...
Bran Redmaw
10 man Hunter squad with 2 melts, MotW
2 x 5 man Hunter squads w saw, MotW in Razorbacks...
Long fangs w 4 ml
Wolf guard, 3 with combi weapons...
So essentially I have the one squad go behind enemy lines an Bran riding a flank with the second... Kind of counting on slow opponents who cannot take advantage of 2/3 of my points starting off the table... So, can win but still have some doubts... still, getting the lads painted...
Friday, March 29, 2013
Outflank rules question
So, Bran Redmaw has the saga of the hunter... Allows outflank. So, were I to deploy him in say, a Grey Hunter unit in a Razorback... Would the reserved unit be able to flank? I am thinking so, but not sure that declaring the IC to be with the unit makes it "part of" the unit... If so, neat... I just have to keep at or above 50% deployed normally with one Grey Hunter unit getting Wolf Scout deployment rules (behind enemy lines)... So need 3 things at least to deploy...
Liking the Werewolf aspect... Doubt he'll be worth the 210 points, but might be fun...
Liking the Werewolf aspect... Doubt he'll be worth the 210 points, but might be fun...
Wednesday, March 27, 2013
300th post, Wolves and Praetorians... Back to the beginning...
So, repainting the ancient lads... Playing a few more weeks at 1000 points, so I am thinking the Wolves come out to play... Not really enough points to field a cohesive force, but... Grey Hunters in Razorbacks for my Troops, a few Scout Squads I think for the "Behind Enemy Lines"... Not sure if I will bring Long Fangs, Rune Priest in Terminator Armor or Bran Redmaw :-) IA 11, Werewolves everywhere? Might be amusing...
Repainting and digging the lads out... I forgot how many of them I had... For larger games I have the ancient Land Raider, I can field Logan Grimmar and his Guard, Njal, Ragnar, Ulric, etc... Found my full GW hard fig case of the old army and still more in other boxes and on the painting table...
Repaint is coming along, I have to say I really like how they are turning out. Going in the old Legion colors of Grey with Yellow trim and helmet stripe... The bulk of my force in the MK VI "Corvis" Armor with a number of MK II thrown in there... Even a few of the very first Marines in the most ancient armor... And my Scouts are led out by Leman Russ himself... :-) I find it a fine joke, and think that will be the way he returns to us when the time comes... Just slipping into the battle with the Scouts, showing up exactly where and when needed the most...
Still painting a few of the Praetorians as well... Really liking how they are turning out, but since I only have 30 or so finished of my 120 or so... May be a while yet before the Light Rifles hit the field...
Repainting and digging the lads out... I forgot how many of them I had... For larger games I have the ancient Land Raider, I can field Logan Grimmar and his Guard, Njal, Ragnar, Ulric, etc... Found my full GW hard fig case of the old army and still more in other boxes and on the painting table...
Repaint is coming along, I have to say I really like how they are turning out. Going in the old Legion colors of Grey with Yellow trim and helmet stripe... The bulk of my force in the MK VI "Corvis" Armor with a number of MK II thrown in there... Even a few of the very first Marines in the most ancient armor... And my Scouts are led out by Leman Russ himself... :-) I find it a fine joke, and think that will be the way he returns to us when the time comes... Just slipping into the battle with the Scouts, showing up exactly where and when needed the most...
Still painting a few of the Praetorians as well... Really liking how they are turning out, but since I only have 30 or so finished of my 120 or so... May be a while yet before the Light Rifles hit the field...
Monday, March 25, 2013
Are monkeys writing the FAQ for 40K? Do they even play the bloody game?
Thinking about fielding my Wolves, so I snagged the January FAQ (latest for them)... The one change is that if a Wolf Scout unit has an IC OR an assigned Wolf Guard Pack Leader, they lose the ability to go behind enemy lines. Understandable if it is the IC, this was the case in the previous edition, but now the WGPL? Wow, it wasn't enough to take away the ability to go to Assault and actually use the Melta bombs they can buy or be safe briefly and give every army out there the ability to probably kill 3-4 of them with the Quad Guns firing Interceptor as the Wolves have NO BLOODY FLIERS of their own. Oh, we CAN get an ace :-) For all the fliers we do not have... All I can say is wow. GW had an excellent opportunity with the "Death From the Skies" book to get fliers out to all the armies and some form of AA to the armies lacking it but instead we get a $37 FAQ adding the Fliers to SOME armies, but not fixing anything really and being really a disappointment overall for the players out here.
So, no Fliers, no AAA, neutered Wolf Scouts and Wolf Guard... Hmmm, wonder how well the Wolves will do in our local environment? Not really. No defense whatever against the Heldrake or tank lines I see across the table, no really compelling reason to field them really... A bit of a caffeine inspired rant as I am snowed in, but really kind of confusing and disappointing...
So, no Fliers, no AAA, neutered Wolf Scouts and Wolf Guard... Hmmm, wonder how well the Wolves will do in our local environment? Not really. No defense whatever against the Heldrake or tank lines I see across the table, no really compelling reason to field them really... A bit of a caffeine inspired rant as I am snowed in, but really kind of confusing and disappointing...
Sunday, March 24, 2013
So... Wolves and Praetorians? Maybe Eldar?
Yeah, the Fleshtearers are OK, but 1000 points is stifling... The Storm Raven is amazing, as long as it stays a Flier... Landing to have the lads and DN assault is the turn before it dies... So, have to learn a bit better when to actually works out in my favor to fully commit... Something to work on, but REALLY only something I think comes into effect at levels over 1500 points... Means I am committing ONE of my assault elements, not the bulk of my army... And with my usual attack involves several elements all going at the same time, so it will not be the same guarantee that the Raven dies... VERY vulnerable of course, but not just waiting to die.
Brings me to what I am thinking about... Probably going to switch out my army. Wolves are interesting, and seeing more than a few Tank Line armies locally, I think the Wolf Scouts are going to be brutal. My initial response was they are shelved with almost every army fielding the Aegis line with the quad gun... Now, not really seeing the Quad guns or Aegis lines, so the Scouts appearing in the backfield with Melta and Plasma would be a very good thing... The Rune Priest is still the only real psychic defense Marines have, and it till wounds Daemons on a 2+... Long Fangs are OK, but with the Heldrake roaming everywhere, I do not have the same confidence I once had. Maybe with a Wolf Guard and Rune Priest in Terminator armor in the squad... Just seems a LOT of my points in one small squad. Grey Hunters are a solid choice and I am liking the Razorbacks with small squads these days... Probably helps that I snagged the last metal Njal at the Gopher and Munin sent me the last of my Wolf Scouts, but we'll see if I can make them work... And I am REALLY liking how my new paint scheme test mini came out, so the lads will be getting repainted... Or painted :-) Some of the lads haven't ever really been finished since they hit the field in the ancient pre Heresy days of the RT edition...
Praetorians and Eldar are also starting to make their way back to the top of the list... With my Praetorians, I am thinking I could abuse Artillery and just win by shooting and Arty sniping... So, potentially devastating but ultimately boring I think. Eldar will be more of a challenge, but mostly because I do not believe they are competitive in the current edition. OK, I didn't think they were competitive in the previous edition either, and it has really just gotten worse... Farseer or Eldrad look like they'd be good, and I can put out a metric crapton of Str 6 shooting... Neat, but... For Troops, the Pathfinders are good, but only until someone else locally figures out that there are a lot of things that ignore cover saves... Once someone else figures it out, well, the Pathfinders will evaporate... HtH is limited and the Vehicles by and large are overpriced... Oh, and unless I use IA, nothing close to a Flier or AAA... OTOH, excellent flier in IA 11... So, I think I could make something work...
Brings me to what I am thinking about... Probably going to switch out my army. Wolves are interesting, and seeing more than a few Tank Line armies locally, I think the Wolf Scouts are going to be brutal. My initial response was they are shelved with almost every army fielding the Aegis line with the quad gun... Now, not really seeing the Quad guns or Aegis lines, so the Scouts appearing in the backfield with Melta and Plasma would be a very good thing... The Rune Priest is still the only real psychic defense Marines have, and it till wounds Daemons on a 2+... Long Fangs are OK, but with the Heldrake roaming everywhere, I do not have the same confidence I once had. Maybe with a Wolf Guard and Rune Priest in Terminator armor in the squad... Just seems a LOT of my points in one small squad. Grey Hunters are a solid choice and I am liking the Razorbacks with small squads these days... Probably helps that I snagged the last metal Njal at the Gopher and Munin sent me the last of my Wolf Scouts, but we'll see if I can make them work... And I am REALLY liking how my new paint scheme test mini came out, so the lads will be getting repainted... Or painted :-) Some of the lads haven't ever really been finished since they hit the field in the ancient pre Heresy days of the RT edition...
Praetorians and Eldar are also starting to make their way back to the top of the list... With my Praetorians, I am thinking I could abuse Artillery and just win by shooting and Arty sniping... So, potentially devastating but ultimately boring I think. Eldar will be more of a challenge, but mostly because I do not believe they are competitive in the current edition. OK, I didn't think they were competitive in the previous edition either, and it has really just gotten worse... Farseer or Eldrad look like they'd be good, and I can put out a metric crapton of Str 6 shooting... Neat, but... For Troops, the Pathfinders are good, but only until someone else locally figures out that there are a lot of things that ignore cover saves... Once someone else figures it out, well, the Pathfinders will evaporate... HtH is limited and the Vehicles by and large are overpriced... Oh, and unless I use IA, nothing close to a Flier or AAA... OTOH, excellent flier in IA 11... So, I think I could make something work...
Monday, March 18, 2013
1K Team League starts tonight...
So, I'm bringing my Fleshtearers... I toyed with a few other armies, and I think we CAN change it during the league, so not a big deal... Just that the Eldar are nigh unplayable in this edition unless I am playing one of the IA lists like the Corsairs... Even the Nightwing Flier they have in there is really quite good at 145 points... But the IA lists are probably overpowered, and a single Flier is not so much fun to bring to the table... If Pedro Cantor changed Sternguard to Troops rather than just making them Scoring, I'd be using that again, but the "tax" of having to bring at least 2 minimum sized squads of crap troops is just too much I think. DA I just played, and while I think they are OK, the parts I want to play would not work well in small 1K games... That and frankly I was tired of playing the same army every week... There really are some things it does well against and some it is incapable of dealing with barring insanely good dice. So, the game devolves to a "Rock Paper Scissors" game that takes several hours to play out, but that most of the players know what will likely happen before Deployment...
/rant off :-) So, I am bringing a nice "Team Friendly" force, either my Roddy Piper force ("We're here to kick ass and chew bubblegum... And we're out of gum") being the first:
Reclusiarch (Jump Pack)
Death Company (5, 2 Power Axes, Jump Packs)
DC DN (Claws of Eternal Combat, HF)
Storm Raven (MM/TL LC)
Assault Squad (10, Flamer, Melta, PW SGT)
Sanguinary Priest (Jump Pack)
Aegis Line w/ LC
So, nothing at all subtle, the Raven loads up with the DC elements and comes in to hit the enemy on or about turn 3... Assault Squad and Medic can combat squad and hide in ruins/Aegis line... The line is just the extra 85 points... I COULD bring the Whirlwind at 90 if I really wanted to, but given the DA version @ 65... Just no where really to sink those points...
Second is a straight up stand and fight list...
Librarian (Jump Pack, Blood Lance and ?)
Assault Squad (10, 2 Melta, SGT w/ Inf pistol and PW)
Assault Squad (10 Melta, Flamer, SGT w/ ? Flame pistol maybe)
Storm Raven (TML, TL LC)
Furioso DN (HF)
Attack Bike w/ MM
So, nothing subtle, just bringing scoring bodies, a Flier to dogfight and .... Well, that's about it. Should be a good "half" of another Army for a team...
All in all, nothing TOO overpowered... Should be interesting at least. I still have the Death Company squad I won in the Tournament a few leagues back... Might have to paint them up as Honor Guards... Think I have enough DC with 25+ Jump Troopers... Or I'd be happy to trade them for something else if someone is needing more DC...
/rant off :-) So, I am bringing a nice "Team Friendly" force, either my Roddy Piper force ("We're here to kick ass and chew bubblegum... And we're out of gum") being the first:
Reclusiarch (Jump Pack)
Death Company (5, 2 Power Axes, Jump Packs)
DC DN (Claws of Eternal Combat, HF)
Storm Raven (MM/TL LC)
Assault Squad (10, Flamer, Melta, PW SGT)
Sanguinary Priest (Jump Pack)
Aegis Line w/ LC
So, nothing at all subtle, the Raven loads up with the DC elements and comes in to hit the enemy on or about turn 3... Assault Squad and Medic can combat squad and hide in ruins/Aegis line... The line is just the extra 85 points... I COULD bring the Whirlwind at 90 if I really wanted to, but given the DA version @ 65... Just no where really to sink those points...
Second is a straight up stand and fight list...
Librarian (Jump Pack, Blood Lance and ?)
Assault Squad (10, 2 Melta, SGT w/ Inf pistol and PW)
Assault Squad (10 Melta, Flamer, SGT w/ ? Flame pistol maybe)
Storm Raven (TML, TL LC)
Furioso DN (HF)
Attack Bike w/ MM
So, nothing subtle, just bringing scoring bodies, a Flier to dogfight and .... Well, that's about it. Should be a good "half" of another Army for a team...
All in all, nothing TOO overpowered... Should be interesting at least. I still have the Death Company squad I won in the Tournament a few leagues back... Might have to paint them up as Honor Guards... Think I have enough DC with 25+ Jump Troopers... Or I'd be happy to trade them for something else if someone is needing more DC...
Thursday, March 14, 2013
Are Assault Armies Dead?
So, I've been hearing this over and over... I'm not sure, but I DO think they have taken a serious hit since the new edition hit. Not being able to Assault out of Reserve in general is bad, and of course having an entire new class of target that is completely immune to HtH is pretty bad as well... Random Charge length can be annoying, but overall I actually like that. It HAS killed off the 5th edition standby of the "Power Blob" the IG could field. Casualties being taken closest (or directed by placed shots) leads to some interesting situations that could well allow you to kill so many targets that you are no longer IN combat... Or you lose wounds done because you can only kill the close things... Of course the inability to assault from non "Assault" (or open topped) Vehicles is pretty bad... Especially because this prevents you from Assaulting if you have to get out of a wrecked or destroyed Vehicle...
This and the no assaults from Reserve are particularly difficult to justify. The stated reason is that the designers have is that they did not want the players to be hit by things that they could not react to before getting hit... All well and good, except then you get things like the Heldrake that CAN simply fly on, hit you with the Vector Strike then hit you again or another unit altogether with it's Flamer of Doom... The first happens before ANY reaction is possible, including Interceptor fire, the second after, but by then it is too late usually and frankly how many Fliers get killed by Interceptor fire? Most of my armies will have the Quad gun, or an Icarus Las Cannon... If they're lucky and have access to the Forgeworld stuff or are allowed to proxy in stuff then the Hyperion Missile turrets or Mortis DNs perhaps...
Kind of lost track of where I was here... "Assault" to me I guess I apply my own more modern definitions to. So, I would include short ranged "shock" shooting as part of an Assault strategy. Sternguard or IG Stormtroopers dropping in onto a target and smacking it with Plasma and Melta at point blank range to me is every bit as much "Assault" as the Death Company jump packing into HtH... More suicidal I think as you are not "safely in HtH and will likely take heavy casualties or get wiped out by the return fire, but My Sternguard never failed to get me First Blood when I played them regularly... Yes, in my best iteration of that list was in the 1850+ point range and included CPT Tycho's Fleshtearer doppelganger, Sternguard, Medic in Terminator Armor and the Vanguard Vets following the Drop Pod's beacon in to deal with anyone silly enough to be close to the CPT and the boys... Sometimes they even survived. And I usually won the fight, and the battle because First Blood, Line Breaker and Kill the Warlord were all pretty good odd wise for that setup... NOT long term holding the line, unless I happen to kill them all of course :-)...
Off to work out I guess, I am finding that I think a lot better when I am on the move...
This and the no assaults from Reserve are particularly difficult to justify. The stated reason is that the designers have is that they did not want the players to be hit by things that they could not react to before getting hit... All well and good, except then you get things like the Heldrake that CAN simply fly on, hit you with the Vector Strike then hit you again or another unit altogether with it's Flamer of Doom... The first happens before ANY reaction is possible, including Interceptor fire, the second after, but by then it is too late usually and frankly how many Fliers get killed by Interceptor fire? Most of my armies will have the Quad gun, or an Icarus Las Cannon... If they're lucky and have access to the Forgeworld stuff or are allowed to proxy in stuff then the Hyperion Missile turrets or Mortis DNs perhaps...
Kind of lost track of where I was here... "Assault" to me I guess I apply my own more modern definitions to. So, I would include short ranged "shock" shooting as part of an Assault strategy. Sternguard or IG Stormtroopers dropping in onto a target and smacking it with Plasma and Melta at point blank range to me is every bit as much "Assault" as the Death Company jump packing into HtH... More suicidal I think as you are not "safely in HtH and will likely take heavy casualties or get wiped out by the return fire, but My Sternguard never failed to get me First Blood when I played them regularly... Yes, in my best iteration of that list was in the 1850+ point range and included CPT Tycho's Fleshtearer doppelganger, Sternguard, Medic in Terminator Armor and the Vanguard Vets following the Drop Pod's beacon in to deal with anyone silly enough to be close to the CPT and the boys... Sometimes they even survived. And I usually won the fight, and the battle because First Blood, Line Breaker and Kill the Warlord were all pretty good odd wise for that setup... NOT long term holding the line, unless I happen to kill them all of course :-)...
Off to work out I guess, I am finding that I think a lot better when I am on the move...
Tuesday, March 12, 2013
1000 points of Fleshtearers, take 2 (Now with pics :-))
Mkay, got in a 1500 point game last night against Bradly's Grey Knights... He had a really good list, not quite as Meched up as his previous ones, but... The only real weakness I could see is the lack of real long ranged firepower, specifically AT firepower... But the HtH silliness and the melta guns everywhere on the Henchmen squads is solid if a bit fragile outside of their Chimeras... Weight of fire is a concern as well as he can throw out a LOT of fire in the 24" range bracket... Still, my thrown together list did fairly well, mostly due to the Medics (Sanguinary Priests) allowing my insane number of FnP rolls to keep my lads on the field... I made something like the first dozen before failing one, and overall made something like 20+ in the course of the game. So, I think the Medics are keepers...
Gabriel Seth was also on the field... Did well, but his 2 big HtH rounds were destroying an Interceptor SGT in a Challenge and then wiping out a Henchman Squad single handed on the Charge... He ran with a tooled out Honor Guard, so the Medic there helped a lot, but I think overall I would have done better with Death Company. The Furioso I used in place of the DC DN did well, but the DC DN has Fleet and twice I rolled a bad Charge distance and failed the Charge... And died as a result. The DC DN in Assault would have wiped the Terminators and Coteaz easily I think...
Oh, and here's the Raven:
So, here's my second take at 1000 points:
Gabriel Seth
Death Company (5, 2 Power Axes)
DC DN
Assault Squad (10, Melta, Flamer, PW on SGT)
Storm Raven (TL Las Cannon, TL Melta)
Medics (1 Termi, 1 Jump Pack)
Have to juggle the points a bit... I WANT the H Flamer on the DN, so the Medic riding with Seth might well go away or lose the Terminator Armor... I tried the "Typhoon" Missile Launcher on the Raven, but was pretty disappointed with it, especially given the extra points I paid for it... Might be that I simply did not face a flier, but AP 1 and Melta is HUGE, and a free swap, so there we go... Might bring in an Attack Bike in place of the Medic in the Raven... Would LOVE to have a Chaplain, and may well swap a Reclusiarch for Seth... Hmmm... Then the DC might get Jump Packs... Probably not though :-) Bloody expensive...
Gabriel Seth was also on the field... Did well, but his 2 big HtH rounds were destroying an Interceptor SGT in a Challenge and then wiping out a Henchman Squad single handed on the Charge... He ran with a tooled out Honor Guard, so the Medic there helped a lot, but I think overall I would have done better with Death Company. The Furioso I used in place of the DC DN did well, but the DC DN has Fleet and twice I rolled a bad Charge distance and failed the Charge... And died as a result. The DC DN in Assault would have wiped the Terminators and Coteaz easily I think...
Oh, and here's the Raven:
So, here's my second take at 1000 points:
Gabriel Seth
Death Company (5, 2 Power Axes)
DC DN
Assault Squad (10, Melta, Flamer, PW on SGT)
Storm Raven (TL Las Cannon, TL Melta)
Medics (1 Termi, 1 Jump Pack)
Have to juggle the points a bit... I WANT the H Flamer on the DN, so the Medic riding with Seth might well go away or lose the Terminator Armor... I tried the "Typhoon" Missile Launcher on the Raven, but was pretty disappointed with it, especially given the extra points I paid for it... Might be that I simply did not face a flier, but AP 1 and Melta is HUGE, and a free swap, so there we go... Might bring in an Attack Bike in place of the Medic in the Raven... Would LOVE to have a Chaplain, and may well swap a Reclusiarch for Seth... Hmmm... Then the DC might get Jump Packs... Probably not though :-) Bloody expensive...
Thursday, March 7, 2013
Fleshtearers for the next league...
Looking like a team league, but I am looking at playing at least some of the games with the 1500 or 1850 lists... Last time I played CPT Tycho and the Sternguard All Stars. Pretty effective, and VERY "Fleshtearer" with the win or die nature of the army... Not sure I want to do the same thing again, especially with FT Sternguard NOT being scoring. Was different with the Crimson Fists, especially with Pedro Cantor being able to ride in the Drop Pod with a full 10 man squad.
So, Gabriel Seth... Thinking of running him with an Honor Guard squad, loaded out with a variety of weapons, power, melta, etc. and having them ride in the Storm Raven... Really liking how that thing turned out, will have to get some pictures... The DC DN or a Furioso rides in there as well... A few full Assault Squads, some Sanguinary Priests (Medics to me...), and? Dunno, guessing a Vindicator, maybe a Predator or two...
Leads to a rule question, does Gabriel's "Ferocious Instincts" mean that anyone rolling one's against his unit in HtH takes the Str 4, or does it only work when he is on his own/in a challenge? As I read it, I'd say it is only him, but the Necron codex has a similar character, and it goes the other way as I understand it...
So, Gabriel Seth... Thinking of running him with an Honor Guard squad, loaded out with a variety of weapons, power, melta, etc. and having them ride in the Storm Raven... Really liking how that thing turned out, will have to get some pictures... The DC DN or a Furioso rides in there as well... A few full Assault Squads, some Sanguinary Priests (Medics to me...), and? Dunno, guessing a Vindicator, maybe a Predator or two...
Leads to a rule question, does Gabriel's "Ferocious Instincts" mean that anyone rolling one's against his unit in HtH takes the Str 4, or does it only work when he is on his own/in a challenge? As I read it, I'd say it is only him, but the Necron codex has a similar character, and it goes the other way as I understand it...
Monday, March 4, 2013
1000 points of Fleshtearers
Well, not sure this will work well... Looking at the Partner League starting up, so here's my rough draft:
Librarian (Jump Pack, Blood Lance and ?)
Assault Squad (10, 2 Melta, Infernus Pistol, PW on SGT)
Assault Squad (10, Metla, Flamer, Flame pistol and Melta bomb on SGT)
Attack Bike (MM)
Stormraven (TLLC, TML)
Furioso DN (HF, DN CCW)
Not thinking it will win a LOT of battles on it's own, but I have an answer for first blood on the MM Attack bike and Jump Troopers... The Raven can take it's shots at 2 Fliers/turn and they are the Str 9, 4 Str 8 shots. Done messing around, I do not want to glance, I want penetrating hits and destroyed results. AP 1/2 on high Str shots seems to be the way...
The Troops can Combat Squad, Deep Strike if needed, move fast and probably hold if needed... I am concerned that it has no medics for FnP, might have to drop the TML on the Raven and maybe the Attack bike for one...
Librarian (Jump Pack, Blood Lance and ?)
Assault Squad (10, 2 Melta, Infernus Pistol, PW on SGT)
Assault Squad (10, Metla, Flamer, Flame pistol and Melta bomb on SGT)
Attack Bike (MM)
Stormraven (TLLC, TML)
Furioso DN (HF, DN CCW)
Not thinking it will win a LOT of battles on it's own, but I have an answer for first blood on the MM Attack bike and Jump Troopers... The Raven can take it's shots at 2 Fliers/turn and they are the Str 9, 4 Str 8 shots. Done messing around, I do not want to glance, I want penetrating hits and destroyed results. AP 1/2 on high Str shots seems to be the way...
The Troops can Combat Squad, Deep Strike if needed, move fast and probably hold if needed... I am concerned that it has no medics for FnP, might have to drop the TML on the Raven and maybe the Attack bike for one...
Saturday, March 2, 2013
Old Stuff Day 2013, Ancient Wolves...
Well, here's something from the REALLY ancient times...
Shame I do not feel the Wolves can compete these days... Would like to take the old girl out for a spin, but I think the time of Land Raider Dominance is past... Built this back in 88 or 89 I think from the White Dwarf templates... Have since converted the other MK I Land Raider to the Spartan Class like this one, but the Black one has magnetized weapons for swapping...
Not great pictures, but the new phone does have a MUCH nicer one...
Shame I do not feel the Wolves can compete these days... Would like to take the old girl out for a spin, but I think the time of Land Raider Dominance is past... Built this back in 88 or 89 I think from the White Dwarf templates... Have since converted the other MK I Land Raider to the Spartan Class like this one, but the Black one has magnetized weapons for swapping...
Not great pictures, but the new phone does have a MUCH nicer one...
Wednesday, February 27, 2013
With the stroke of a pen, could the 6th edition be "fixed"?
Mkay, thinking about the few fixes I think that would make the game actually a LOT more playable. Not saying any of this will ever happen, and it would likely break something else down the line if applied. Still, here goes...
As of right now, the biggest single issue I see is that Fliers are simply unmatched and unevenly applied across the armies... Some armies get loads of them, and those that get the ability to field LOTS of them seem to have the ones... Well, let's call them "less balanced in the current environment"... Broken, but wanting to stay away from a "complaining" tone... Specifically, some armies have NO access to either Fliers or AAA of any sort. That is JUST counting the GW published things, with the exception of the Tyranids I know every army has SOMETHING they could field as AA or has actual Fliers... Tyranids have Flying MC's, but REALLY not the same IMO. Strange to think that the Hive Mind would not have come up with an effective way to deal with Fighters and Bombers, but what would I know...
So:
1) Hitting Fliers on 6's (snap fire only) is simply too much of an advantage for Fliers when it is not matched with an equal disadvantage... Well, let's be honest here, there is NO disadvantage to fliers engaging ground targets... IE: Fliers can only hit ground targets on a 6 unless they go to a more vulnerable "low altitude/hover" mode, in which case ground fire becomes more effective... Something on the order of halving the BS or simply steal the "Mortis" rule and say anything that stood still gets "Skyfire" that turn... Most things hitting on 5's doesn't seem like TOO much an advantage, every HW having Skyfire might well be too much as most HW's only fire well when standing still...
2) Not every army has Fliers. Given, but it is sticking out like a very sore thumb right now with some armies having a LOT of them, and others getting none or perhaps one or two overpriced pieces of junk. Not very conducive to seeing a variety of armies on the table. And having entire armies relegated to "well, they make decent Allies" status is pretty much unacceptable to the player base who have collected large armies... Not even touching on the Game Stores who have stock of things relegated to "well, that's useless crap"... Of the armies I play some are OK... I have Blood Angels (Fleshtearers), GK, Marines (Crimson Fists), and IG (Praetorians) all of whom have either good/decent fliers and AA support. My DA (Consecrators) I would also add to this list with the addition of the FW Mortis DN rules. The Flak missiles are craptastic at best and NOT worth another 10 points on top of the 15 for the Launcher. So, leaves my Wolves and Eldar as being completely hosed when it comes to facing Fliers. Right now, playing Wolves seem foolish as I have no answer for the Necron or Chaos armies I am seeing commonly. The Eldar are just so far behind the current "curve" that they are pretty much impossible to compete with. 2 full editions behind after so many major changes is simply impossible to keep up. Just thinking that they have served enough penance for the stupidly overpowered 2nd/3rd ed codexes... So here is where I think the "stroke of the pen" as it were would even things out... Just like the Land Raider Crusader went to all Marine forces from Black Templar only, why would ALL Marine armies not have access to the Storm Raven and Storm Talon? Simple thing and mind boggling that it was NOT done initially or even in the $30 FAQ they just released. I know it is REALLY only the Wolves at this point who have NO fliers... Frustrating as they have a bloody "Fighter Ace" chart they can buy a roll on... With the Eldar, pull a Necron Codex on them. Simply make the Fast Skimmers into Fliers with Hover mode... Yeah, it would be insanely overpowered... Just like the Necron Codex :-)... Pretty much goes without saying that ALL missile launchers should get Flak missiles as a free upgrade... Craptastic, but as a free upgrade, would at least not be so bad...
3) Useless things... For me one of the most frustrating things is something like the Land Raider Redeemer. Looks neat on paper until you realize that the rules make it completely useless. Now, not just the LRR, but pretty much any sponson mounted flamer... Baal Predator and Leman Russ come to mind, there may be more... So, by the rules essentially only one of the 2 will ever fire... My thought was to make it a Torrent weapon. Hell, the IG have this in their Hellhound, so it's not like there aren't a billion examples of this sort of thing out there. Yes, it might be powerful putting down 2 flamer templates 12" out and maybe hitting for a whole bunch of wounds... OTOH, 250 points for limited transport and a bunch of useless weapons? At the least they should be given split fire so they CAN shoot at multiple targets... So essentially, go through and find the useless "stuff" and make a few minor tweaks and changes to make them all at least useful... Some things like Wolf Blood Claws may well be beyond saving, so...
Yeah a bit of time on my hands :-) Working out, etc...
As of right now, the biggest single issue I see is that Fliers are simply unmatched and unevenly applied across the armies... Some armies get loads of them, and those that get the ability to field LOTS of them seem to have the ones... Well, let's call them "less balanced in the current environment"... Broken, but wanting to stay away from a "complaining" tone... Specifically, some armies have NO access to either Fliers or AAA of any sort. That is JUST counting the GW published things, with the exception of the Tyranids I know every army has SOMETHING they could field as AA or has actual Fliers... Tyranids have Flying MC's, but REALLY not the same IMO. Strange to think that the Hive Mind would not have come up with an effective way to deal with Fighters and Bombers, but what would I know...
So:
1) Hitting Fliers on 6's (snap fire only) is simply too much of an advantage for Fliers when it is not matched with an equal disadvantage... Well, let's be honest here, there is NO disadvantage to fliers engaging ground targets... IE: Fliers can only hit ground targets on a 6 unless they go to a more vulnerable "low altitude/hover" mode, in which case ground fire becomes more effective... Something on the order of halving the BS or simply steal the "Mortis" rule and say anything that stood still gets "Skyfire" that turn... Most things hitting on 5's doesn't seem like TOO much an advantage, every HW having Skyfire might well be too much as most HW's only fire well when standing still...
2) Not every army has Fliers. Given, but it is sticking out like a very sore thumb right now with some armies having a LOT of them, and others getting none or perhaps one or two overpriced pieces of junk. Not very conducive to seeing a variety of armies on the table. And having entire armies relegated to "well, they make decent Allies" status is pretty much unacceptable to the player base who have collected large armies... Not even touching on the Game Stores who have stock of things relegated to "well, that's useless crap"... Of the armies I play some are OK... I have Blood Angels (Fleshtearers), GK, Marines (Crimson Fists), and IG (Praetorians) all of whom have either good/decent fliers and AA support. My DA (Consecrators) I would also add to this list with the addition of the FW Mortis DN rules. The Flak missiles are craptastic at best and NOT worth another 10 points on top of the 15 for the Launcher. So, leaves my Wolves and Eldar as being completely hosed when it comes to facing Fliers. Right now, playing Wolves seem foolish as I have no answer for the Necron or Chaos armies I am seeing commonly. The Eldar are just so far behind the current "curve" that they are pretty much impossible to compete with. 2 full editions behind after so many major changes is simply impossible to keep up. Just thinking that they have served enough penance for the stupidly overpowered 2nd/3rd ed codexes... So here is where I think the "stroke of the pen" as it were would even things out... Just like the Land Raider Crusader went to all Marine forces from Black Templar only, why would ALL Marine armies not have access to the Storm Raven and Storm Talon? Simple thing and mind boggling that it was NOT done initially or even in the $30 FAQ they just released. I know it is REALLY only the Wolves at this point who have NO fliers... Frustrating as they have a bloody "Fighter Ace" chart they can buy a roll on... With the Eldar, pull a Necron Codex on them. Simply make the Fast Skimmers into Fliers with Hover mode... Yeah, it would be insanely overpowered... Just like the Necron Codex :-)... Pretty much goes without saying that ALL missile launchers should get Flak missiles as a free upgrade... Craptastic, but as a free upgrade, would at least not be so bad...
3) Useless things... For me one of the most frustrating things is something like the Land Raider Redeemer. Looks neat on paper until you realize that the rules make it completely useless. Now, not just the LRR, but pretty much any sponson mounted flamer... Baal Predator and Leman Russ come to mind, there may be more... So, by the rules essentially only one of the 2 will ever fire... My thought was to make it a Torrent weapon. Hell, the IG have this in their Hellhound, so it's not like there aren't a billion examples of this sort of thing out there. Yes, it might be powerful putting down 2 flamer templates 12" out and maybe hitting for a whole bunch of wounds... OTOH, 250 points for limited transport and a bunch of useless weapons? At the least they should be given split fire so they CAN shoot at multiple targets... So essentially, go through and find the useless "stuff" and make a few minor tweaks and changes to make them all at least useful... Some things like Wolf Blood Claws may well be beyond saving, so...
Yeah a bit of time on my hands :-) Working out, etc...
1K for the next League... So Fleshtearers?
Looking like we're doing a simple(ish) team games league next... Each player brings 1000 points to be teamed up... Will I think at the least alleviate the table situation we are facing at the moment. Despite what is happening elsewhere (referencing Stelek's comments on http://yesthetruthhurts.com/), our local group has only grown recently to the point that on Mondays we actually have folks waiting for the first run of games to conclude before they can get a table. 7-8 tables I think is pretty much the maximum we can really have in play, so after the first 16 players are set usually we have a "second wave" showing up in the 6:30-7 range to get in another round... This should get us all playing and moving along...
Only down side I see is the caveat of you CAN bring a 2000 point force and just play that. Great if it is just the "when there are an odd number of players" thing, but someone wanting to play an "I'm here to win, whatever the cost" army will have a MUCH easier time bringing a hard to beat force at 2000 points than 1000 + partner. Example being if I bring a Sternguard Squad in a 1K list, I cannot max it out and still have a force that can still win on it's own. At 2K, the bells, whistles and maxxed out Squad still is in the 300-400 point range, so not a problem as that will be the "First Blood" hunter and probably "Warlord Assassin Team". I could even bring in an "Ally" in Pedro Cantor and make them Scoring... Other examples abound, mostly with the maximum number of say, good/broken Fliers packed into the list and then filler Troops. NOT saying I see anyone doing this locally, by and large we are more of a "fun" group than cut throat win at all cost group... Just that the possibility exists.
Guessing I will field my reconstructed "Storm Raven" (Vendetta conversion I picked up in a trade)... Just seeing WAY too many Fliers hitting the table, and with decent rolls this could provide me with a counter to a small horde (3-4) of the enemy vehicles without going that route myself. At 1K, I have much more "limited" options for AAA otherwise, so I am rather hoping NOT to be facing a lot of them across the table. So, that more or less defines 20% of my force... Full Squads of Jump Troops run me in the low 200's as well. Scouts are a possibility as well, but even they are almost 200... Not as versatile, but having camping Snipers HAS won me several games... Counting on them to actually kill shit? Not so much...
What I'd LIKE to field would be a Jump Pack equipped Death Company (Yeah, I've been playing THAT since 3rd ed... Hasn't always been "good", but now other than the "Can Never Score" thing, they are quite good), the DC DN, something in a decent HtH Character and Vanguard Vets to back up my Sternguard... At 2K, I can do this. 1K no... The Heavy Tank forces are starting to make a comeback, so the ability to drop in Melta on top of them and shoot or Assault out of Deep Strike with Melta Bombs/Fists is HUGE. I don't have a Horde/crowd control option like with the DA Banner list, but figure I can shoot well enough and selectively engage in HtH... Tyranid hordes will be a problem, but not many play them locally... And even then, play the mission, not the Army, I've beaten the Tyranid swarms with armies that should not have survived before... :-) Maybe I can do it again...
Only down side I see is the caveat of you CAN bring a 2000 point force and just play that. Great if it is just the "when there are an odd number of players" thing, but someone wanting to play an "I'm here to win, whatever the cost" army will have a MUCH easier time bringing a hard to beat force at 2000 points than 1000 + partner. Example being if I bring a Sternguard Squad in a 1K list, I cannot max it out and still have a force that can still win on it's own. At 2K, the bells, whistles and maxxed out Squad still is in the 300-400 point range, so not a problem as that will be the "First Blood" hunter and probably "Warlord Assassin Team". I could even bring in an "Ally" in Pedro Cantor and make them Scoring... Other examples abound, mostly with the maximum number of say, good/broken Fliers packed into the list and then filler Troops. NOT saying I see anyone doing this locally, by and large we are more of a "fun" group than cut throat win at all cost group... Just that the possibility exists.
Guessing I will field my reconstructed "Storm Raven" (Vendetta conversion I picked up in a trade)... Just seeing WAY too many Fliers hitting the table, and with decent rolls this could provide me with a counter to a small horde (3-4) of the enemy vehicles without going that route myself. At 1K, I have much more "limited" options for AAA otherwise, so I am rather hoping NOT to be facing a lot of them across the table. So, that more or less defines 20% of my force... Full Squads of Jump Troops run me in the low 200's as well. Scouts are a possibility as well, but even they are almost 200... Not as versatile, but having camping Snipers HAS won me several games... Counting on them to actually kill shit? Not so much...
What I'd LIKE to field would be a Jump Pack equipped Death Company (Yeah, I've been playing THAT since 3rd ed... Hasn't always been "good", but now other than the "Can Never Score" thing, they are quite good), the DC DN, something in a decent HtH Character and Vanguard Vets to back up my Sternguard... At 2K, I can do this. 1K no... The Heavy Tank forces are starting to make a comeback, so the ability to drop in Melta on top of them and shoot or Assault out of Deep Strike with Melta Bombs/Fists is HUGE. I don't have a Horde/crowd control option like with the DA Banner list, but figure I can shoot well enough and selectively engage in HtH... Tyranid hordes will be a problem, but not many play them locally... And even then, play the mission, not the Army, I've beaten the Tyranid swarms with armies that should not have survived before... :-) Maybe I can do it again...
Monday, February 25, 2013
Last shot with the DA for this League...
Looking like I have one game tonight and another makeup game for the Tournament that I had do leave early from to determine 3rd place...
So, tonight I intend to bring something completely different and probably silly. List follows:
Belial
Deathwing Squad (10, 4 TH/SS, CML, Flamer)
Deathwing Squad (10, 2 CML, 5 TH/SS)
Nephilim Fighter
Mortis DN (TLACx2)
Mortis DN (TLAC x2)
Ravenwing (Melta, Attack Bike w/MM)
Ravenwing Speeder (TML, MM)
So, 2 DN and the Bikes are on the field to start, probably Reserve for the Speeder, and DW Assault the Terminators. Fighter does the Fighter thing, and hopefully with the Mortis DNs keeps the fliers off my back. Guessing it is overkill, but I am caring less :-) Might go to a TL Las Cannon on one of the DNs though... Might be amusing.
On the hobby front, rebuilding the wrecked "Stormraven" I traded for a while back... Getting some color on it and have it mostly rebuilt. Just need to either attach the wings or figure out a way to magnetize them... Getting some more of the Vallejo "Brown Violet" onto my ancient IG vehicles to make them consistent for my Praetorians. Haven't painted many more of the lads, but I DID pick up some of the "Stormtroopers" for the army... Looking forward to assembling some of them I think.
Honestly, I am a bit concerned that the IG are still overpowered. Have seen the entries for the few rules contained in the "DftS" book, and they did not really change the IG at all, nor did they touch the Necrons other than to "remove" Deep Strike from both... "Eh", honestly not sure I've ever seen a flier Deep Strike, there is simply no need if they can just cruise onto the field up to 36" without risk and get wherever they need to go... Still thinking that the whole Flier thing is broken at the moment, and Allies are another major source of problems for the game... But, we'll see how things work out in the longer run...
So, tonight I intend to bring something completely different and probably silly. List follows:
Belial
Deathwing Squad (10, 4 TH/SS, CML, Flamer)
Deathwing Squad (10, 2 CML, 5 TH/SS)
Nephilim Fighter
Mortis DN (TLACx2)
Mortis DN (TLAC x2)
Ravenwing (Melta, Attack Bike w/MM)
Ravenwing Speeder (TML, MM)
So, 2 DN and the Bikes are on the field to start, probably Reserve for the Speeder, and DW Assault the Terminators. Fighter does the Fighter thing, and hopefully with the Mortis DNs keeps the fliers off my back. Guessing it is overkill, but I am caring less :-) Might go to a TL Las Cannon on one of the DNs though... Might be amusing.
On the hobby front, rebuilding the wrecked "Stormraven" I traded for a while back... Getting some color on it and have it mostly rebuilt. Just need to either attach the wings or figure out a way to magnetize them... Getting some more of the Vallejo "Brown Violet" onto my ancient IG vehicles to make them consistent for my Praetorians. Haven't painted many more of the lads, but I DID pick up some of the "Stormtroopers" for the army... Looking forward to assembling some of them I think.
Honestly, I am a bit concerned that the IG are still overpowered. Have seen the entries for the few rules contained in the "DftS" book, and they did not really change the IG at all, nor did they touch the Necrons other than to "remove" Deep Strike from both... "Eh", honestly not sure I've ever seen a flier Deep Strike, there is simply no need if they can just cruise onto the field up to 36" without risk and get wherever they need to go... Still thinking that the whole Flier thing is broken at the moment, and Allies are another major source of problems for the game... But, we'll see how things work out in the longer run...
Wednesday, February 20, 2013
Assembling more fliers...
So, decided to actually get to assembling some fliers I gathered over the last few months... A buddy sent me one of these:
So, guessing that will be my stand-in DA flier or Storm Talon if I run my Crimson Fists... I'll see how close to the actual model next week, but it is looking darn close, or at least close enough for me :-)...
I also have a Valkyrie that someone converted to be a Storm Raven of sorts... Of course, it is in pieces and poorly base coated, but my Fleshtearers will do well with a Raven I think.... Yes, 200 points, but I think it would take down enemy fliers easily enough. Just a but curious if my BA version is the "new" one in the DftS book or the codex one... So far the FAQ seems to indicate that not much changes, just lose Deep Strike and the combat drops are a bit odd... Not something I'd plan on doing in any case, so not issue :-)
Speaking of which I am thinking that I will be finishing up my Fleshtearers as my next project. I miss the Jump Troops, and the DA are Battle Brothers, so I could bring Belial, a Deathwing Squad and a Mortis DN to the party... Brings to mind the "They Live" line of "We're here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... And we're all out of gum..." I think that would be amusing...
So, guessing that will be my stand-in DA flier or Storm Talon if I run my Crimson Fists... I'll see how close to the actual model next week, but it is looking darn close, or at least close enough for me :-)...
I also have a Valkyrie that someone converted to be a Storm Raven of sorts... Of course, it is in pieces and poorly base coated, but my Fleshtearers will do well with a Raven I think.... Yes, 200 points, but I think it would take down enemy fliers easily enough. Just a but curious if my BA version is the "new" one in the DftS book or the codex one... So far the FAQ seems to indicate that not much changes, just lose Deep Strike and the combat drops are a bit odd... Not something I'd plan on doing in any case, so not issue :-)
Speaking of which I am thinking that I will be finishing up my Fleshtearers as my next project. I miss the Jump Troops, and the DA are Battle Brothers, so I could bring Belial, a Deathwing Squad and a Mortis DN to the party... Brings to mind the "They Live" line of "We're here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... And we're all out of gum..." I think that would be amusing...
Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Eldar, thoughts on an elliptical...
So, as part of my "get my ass back into shape" routine I was spending some time on the elliptical in the basement... I've always been one who can think a LOT better on the move... Helped me a LOT when I was off playing Army :-)...
Anyway, I got to thinking... What would make the Eldar Codex instantly competitive and probably overpowered? How about doing the same thing they did with the Necrons? Just declare their Fast Skimmers to be Fliers. Then, wait a few hours and listen for the distinctive sound of heads exploding all over the Internet :-)... Yeah, wouldn't work I'm guessing, but would sure be amusing watching the worst codex leap to the top of the heap.
On the other hand let's see what exactly it would do:
Give the Army up to 6 flying transports... Just like the Necrons.
Give the Army up to 3 Heavy Support flying tanks... Hmmm, sounds familiar...
AV 12 Fliers? Check, see them all over the place these days...
So, really what would they do that the IG and Necrons do not already do? So, other than keeping the power spiral moving up, not a lot different than what already is hitting the table... Would be a cheap (for GW) and provide a bit of variety to the game... So, yeah, probably too bored with 40K at the moment... It just has the feel of a "Beta" product to me, having play tested a number of other systems and done that "programming" thing in the old days... 'course, just my opinion as als=ways, I could be wrong...
Anyway, I got to thinking... What would make the Eldar Codex instantly competitive and probably overpowered? How about doing the same thing they did with the Necrons? Just declare their Fast Skimmers to be Fliers. Then, wait a few hours and listen for the distinctive sound of heads exploding all over the Internet :-)... Yeah, wouldn't work I'm guessing, but would sure be amusing watching the worst codex leap to the top of the heap.
On the other hand let's see what exactly it would do:
Give the Army up to 6 flying transports... Just like the Necrons.
Give the Army up to 3 Heavy Support flying tanks... Hmmm, sounds familiar...
AV 12 Fliers? Check, see them all over the place these days...
So, really what would they do that the IG and Necrons do not already do? So, other than keeping the power spiral moving up, not a lot different than what already is hitting the table... Would be a cheap (for GW) and provide a bit of variety to the game... So, yeah, probably too bored with 40K at the moment... It just has the feel of a "Beta" product to me, having play tested a number of other systems and done that "programming" thing in the old days... 'course, just my opinion as als=ways, I could be wrong...
Sunday, February 17, 2013
Is it Second Edition again?
Ok, a bit of a rant :-)
A group of us were talking about Second Edition 40K during/before the Tournament today... And I have to wonder if we are not heading there or already there. Now, back in 2nd Edition just before it died, you had things like Ravenwing Speeders that literally could not be hit by a lot of armies, needed a 7+ to hit with modifiers, tough to do on a d6... And then the Eldar could do the bad "nose touching" thing putting their Jet Bikes in BtB with their chosen target for a drive by HtH attack and shooting attack... And this seems to be exactly where we are with the Chaos Heldrake... It is a fly by attack that cannot miss, just hits for d3+1 Str 7 Ap 3 hits then flamer template at Str 6, AP 3 again. So, no chance to fail and pretty much will be killing off bunches of 3+ or worse saves... Right now, there are simply not enough defenses against fliers like this. In and of itself it will not be the thing that breaks the game, but it is moving closer. We have a Flier supplement that came out Saturday apparently, but not seeing it as it is "Direct Only" and only available through GW... Not something I could have pre-ordered at the local store. Maybe they will change some of the rules, point costs and or armor values/stats, but I doubt it given the history of the Company...
Second point is Allies... On the surface, it's "neat", but not a big deal. In practice though, it becomes an "All Stars Team" and a way to add extra slots... So, 3 HQ, 4 Heavy/Elite/FA, etc... And the interaction of a lot of the armies is odd at best, but being able to make giant blobs fearless, add fliers/Artillery/whatever... I hate to say it, but playing a "mono" army does put one at a disadvantage given that there are no real costs to field Allies... Especially if they are "close enough" Allies and can mix and match at will... I hate to feel like a fool for playing a "by the book"army, but I am fairly sure that my Wolves are completely useless in the current environment. Without going to FW stuff in the Mortis DN, etc., even the new DA codex is simply not all that capable of handling a top tier list. I guess it is something to think about. I'm not thrilled that I think that the IG allies are necessary to actually have a chance of winning, but...
A group of us were talking about Second Edition 40K during/before the Tournament today... And I have to wonder if we are not heading there or already there. Now, back in 2nd Edition just before it died, you had things like Ravenwing Speeders that literally could not be hit by a lot of armies, needed a 7+ to hit with modifiers, tough to do on a d6... And then the Eldar could do the bad "nose touching" thing putting their Jet Bikes in BtB with their chosen target for a drive by HtH attack and shooting attack... And this seems to be exactly where we are with the Chaos Heldrake... It is a fly by attack that cannot miss, just hits for d3+1 Str 7 Ap 3 hits then flamer template at Str 6, AP 3 again. So, no chance to fail and pretty much will be killing off bunches of 3+ or worse saves... Right now, there are simply not enough defenses against fliers like this. In and of itself it will not be the thing that breaks the game, but it is moving closer. We have a Flier supplement that came out Saturday apparently, but not seeing it as it is "Direct Only" and only available through GW... Not something I could have pre-ordered at the local store. Maybe they will change some of the rules, point costs and or armor values/stats, but I doubt it given the history of the Company...
Second point is Allies... On the surface, it's "neat", but not a big deal. In practice though, it becomes an "All Stars Team" and a way to add extra slots... So, 3 HQ, 4 Heavy/Elite/FA, etc... And the interaction of a lot of the armies is odd at best, but being able to make giant blobs fearless, add fliers/Artillery/whatever... I hate to say it, but playing a "mono" army does put one at a disadvantage given that there are no real costs to field Allies... Especially if they are "close enough" Allies and can mix and match at will... I hate to feel like a fool for playing a "by the book"army, but I am fairly sure that my Wolves are completely useless in the current environment. Without going to FW stuff in the Mortis DN, etc., even the new DA codex is simply not all that capable of handling a top tier list. I guess it is something to think about. I'm not thrilled that I think that the IG allies are necessary to actually have a chance of winning, but...
Friday, February 15, 2013
1850 Tournament Sunday...
So, looking like I'll be making the trek over to Decatur for the League Tournament... After finding out that my Mortis class DN is "40K Approved" and gained Skyfire and Interceptor if it stands still... So 125 points for a pretty darn good AA vehicle that also doubles as a decent defense against things appearing from Reserves like say, Rambo... 4 Str 7 AP 4 shots can usually deal with him and put a decent hurting on Storm-troopers dropping in... Not so great against Marine class armor, but can't have it all I guess :-)...
So, one of the bigger decisions I need to make is Belial or Azrael for the leader... With Belial I play my hyper aggressive Deathwing Assault and drop in usually Turn 1 and KNOW I will hit exactly where I want, split fire if I can, but put a Troop that is darn resilient and impossible to break deep inside the enemy DZ. Not a lot of disadvantages there, mostly just little things like a mostly useless Warlord Trait, NOT giving the high LD to the army, and only making Deathwing Troops... Azrael gets to choose his Warlord trait, makes pretty much my whole army Scoring, LD 10, and... Well, down side I am relying on Teleport homers to drop the Deathwing in and on target... OTOH, I have 5-6 Scoring units if I go with 3 min squads of Deathwing... So, kind of leaning toward Azrael for the leadership...
Keeping the Banner, Techmarine and Land Raider Crusader... That combo is insane, and accounts for the "Horde Removal" portion of the list.... And it makes the flanking (flanking/escorting the LRC, NOT Flanking as in the entry mechanism) Ravenwing Bikes REALLY powerful shooting platforms as well.
So:
Azrael
Command Squad w/Banner of Devastation, Company Champion
Deathwing Squad (10, 4 TH/SS, CML, Flamer)
Deathwing Squad (5, 2 TH/SS, Flamer or Plasma)
Tactical Squad (5, ML w/ flak)
Mortis DN (2 x TLAC)
Ravenwing Squadron (3, Melta, Attack Bike w/MM)
Techmarine (Servo Arms, Power Field)
Land Raider Crusader (MM)
So, the army is my typical "Not Subtle" force... Big, Heavy Tank, flanked by the bikes and the Terminators Deep Striking in around the assault element... Just drive right at one of the enemy flanks or onto an objective and take it. Hold until time runs out or the Enemy runs out of bodies to throw at us... Doubt I'll win the Tournament again, but this force I think will be a contender...
So, one of the bigger decisions I need to make is Belial or Azrael for the leader... With Belial I play my hyper aggressive Deathwing Assault and drop in usually Turn 1 and KNOW I will hit exactly where I want, split fire if I can, but put a Troop that is darn resilient and impossible to break deep inside the enemy DZ. Not a lot of disadvantages there, mostly just little things like a mostly useless Warlord Trait, NOT giving the high LD to the army, and only making Deathwing Troops... Azrael gets to choose his Warlord trait, makes pretty much my whole army Scoring, LD 10, and... Well, down side I am relying on Teleport homers to drop the Deathwing in and on target... OTOH, I have 5-6 Scoring units if I go with 3 min squads of Deathwing... So, kind of leaning toward Azrael for the leadership...
Keeping the Banner, Techmarine and Land Raider Crusader... That combo is insane, and accounts for the "Horde Removal" portion of the list.... And it makes the flanking (flanking/escorting the LRC, NOT Flanking as in the entry mechanism) Ravenwing Bikes REALLY powerful shooting platforms as well.
So:
Azrael
Command Squad w/Banner of Devastation, Company Champion
Deathwing Squad (10, 4 TH/SS, CML, Flamer)
Deathwing Squad (5, 2 TH/SS, Flamer or Plasma)
Tactical Squad (5, ML w/ flak)
Mortis DN (2 x TLAC)
Ravenwing Squadron (3, Melta, Attack Bike w/MM)
Techmarine (Servo Arms, Power Field)
Land Raider Crusader (MM)
So, the army is my typical "Not Subtle" force... Big, Heavy Tank, flanked by the bikes and the Terminators Deep Striking in around the assault element... Just drive right at one of the enemy flanks or onto an objective and take it. Hold until time runs out or the Enemy runs out of bodies to throw at us... Doubt I'll win the Tournament again, but this force I think will be a contender...
Wednesday, February 13, 2013
Forgeworld saving the game?
Ok, feeling a bit like an idiot... I've been playing the Consecrators, a Dark Angels force for a while now, and it was just pointed out to me that Forgeworld updated their stuff for 6th Edition and added a few rules to the "Mortis" class DN. So, it is limited to DA and successors, but it is MUCH cheaper and it gains the same "Mortis" rule as the Contemptor class DN, if it stands still in the movement phase it gains Interceptor and Skyfire. So, now only 125 points for the 2 x TL Auto Cannon DN, AND it can do Interceptor/Skyfire/AAA duty? So... Where's the down side again? I was trying to scrimp and save enough points wise to keep using the Hyperion missile emplacements, but this is WAY better... And as it happens I have "a few" DN hulls around, some of them even magnetized and painted up in my DA colors... Might even be worth it for me to run the TL Lascannon one :-) Just to be able to regularly throw 2 LC shots into fliers hitting the table...
Have to say, I was dreading using my Tactical Marines in any real way, but this information does make my a LOT more comfortable bringing the lads out to play, even with limited Flak missile use. Though, as my ancient "Beakies" are almost all armed with the original weapons of Missile Launcher and Flamer... I am a BIT limited there for the moment until I break out more of the lads from their deep storage, but still, Azrael leading out a few Tac Squads, DW Squads and RW Squadrons for an all scoring army seems like it will work with DA DN's able to provide AAA support easily enough... Hmmmm... I may have a "slight change" for my regular 1850 list... And with the datafiles for the old 2nd ed Armybuilder program being updated (http://ab240k.freeforums.org/, it is MUCH easier :-)...
Sad to me that it looks so much like an afterthought from Forgeworld that will make the DA codex actually quite playable against the overload of flier silliness that seems to be hitting the tables... Further convinces me that GW does not seem to play the same game we do, or at least not in anything resembling the same manner we play at least... So much like the old "Planet Storm" game days where our local group would use the "K2 Shaw" (think an Artillery version of the Cyclone Missile armed Terminator), and make comments like "What to do once the Artillery ammunition is depleted?" The groups playing in LA and Canada were speachless as they bitterly complained how useless the unit was, and how they'd never get more than a single shot off... Turns out we played on a 4'x8' or 5'x10' table, they usually played on a 4'x4' table... And by turn 2, you were at pistol/SMG range making board ranging Artillery and sniper rifles "less useful"... Have to wonder if there is something like that going on, or if it just that they really do not play at all and so don't see the same issues and problems that we as players do...
Have to say, I was dreading using my Tactical Marines in any real way, but this information does make my a LOT more comfortable bringing the lads out to play, even with limited Flak missile use. Though, as my ancient "Beakies" are almost all armed with the original weapons of Missile Launcher and Flamer... I am a BIT limited there for the moment until I break out more of the lads from their deep storage, but still, Azrael leading out a few Tac Squads, DW Squads and RW Squadrons for an all scoring army seems like it will work with DA DN's able to provide AAA support easily enough... Hmmmm... I may have a "slight change" for my regular 1850 list... And with the datafiles for the old 2nd ed Armybuilder program being updated (http://ab240k.freeforums.org/, it is MUCH easier :-)...
Sad to me that it looks so much like an afterthought from Forgeworld that will make the DA codex actually quite playable against the overload of flier silliness that seems to be hitting the tables... Further convinces me that GW does not seem to play the same game we do, or at least not in anything resembling the same manner we play at least... So much like the old "Planet Storm" game days where our local group would use the "K2 Shaw" (think an Artillery version of the Cyclone Missile armed Terminator), and make comments like "What to do once the Artillery ammunition is depleted?" The groups playing in LA and Canada were speachless as they bitterly complained how useless the unit was, and how they'd never get more than a single shot off... Turns out we played on a 4'x8' or 5'x10' table, they usually played on a 4'x4' table... And by turn 2, you were at pistol/SMG range making board ranging Artillery and sniper rifles "less useful"... Have to wonder if there is something like that going on, or if it just that they really do not play at all and so don't see the same issues and problems that we as players do...
Sunday, February 10, 2013
Next week and beyond...
So, next week we play that Crusade of Fire game with multiple steps... 750 points and I have to keep a legal army... So, either I keep playing my Deathwing and field an 11 man army or... Well I guess I could field a Librarian, 2 Tactical Squads and "other"... But not sure I can move fast enough, nor am I confident I could survive long enough to even get to the center of the table. If we go by the rules in the book, I field Belial and simply teleport to the entrance and then enter the bunker on turn one... Needing the second "Troop", I will likely only be able to field 2 min size Deathwing squads, some weapon upgrades and... Maybe a Terminator Librarian? Or just a really tooled out couple of squads... Then the lads will have to survive the tunnel fight. Only thing I really dread is that the scenario was clearly NOT written with a lot of armies in mind... Thinking of the ones that can create more "Troops" or that can simply keep bringing the ones they have back from the dead ("Send in the next wave" for the IG). I don't think it will be as much a problem with the only objective hopefully NOT being anywhere really near the entrances... It was REALLY a disappointing end to the last multi player game with 2 of the 3 teams having the ability to simply appear right on top of the damn objectives on the last turn... Really felt like we played out the whole game for nothing... Hoping this one is different...
Kind of brings me to where I am with the game itself. Maybe we have been playing the Forgeworld stuff for long enough that we have a bit more available to us WRT Fliers and defense against them... The Hyperion missile turrets are cheap and REALLY powerful... Not as powerful I think as the Fliers themselves are, or at least the Fliers we see on the table... Vendettas, Heldrakes,Necrons the occasional Storm Raven and... Yeah, that's pretty much it. The ones that have come out in the 6th Ed other than the Heldrake are pretty expensive and weak overall... So, probably what was intended and well balanced. Problem is that the ones that are coming up from the 5th edition are simply too powerful and cheap in comparison. Maybe they'll update this all in the upcoming "Flier Compendium" coming up next week, but being the cynic I am, I suspect it will simply be reprinted rules and nothing at all new.. No points adjustments, as GW is loathe to make changes on the fly, even to save their own cash cow game... To a point I can see that as some games I have played in the past had the feel of perpetual "beta" as the developers kept making changes on the fly, FAQs became the rulebook, and that probably killed the system... But I think that not making changes and NOT admitting that there might be a problem will kill this game.
I have to wonder if the developers and play testers are playing the same game we are really... I know in typical English fashion, GW holds "competitive play" in a great deal of disdain... (yes, I'm mostly Scottish... Some English, Irish, etc., but mostly Highlander :-) )... A lot of things do not really make sense... Assault Cannons being the one that sticks out to me at the moment assembling Deathwing... At one time, it WAS the single most powerful weapon in the game. 3 follow fire dice, Str 8, -5 save modifier and d12 wounds per hit? Not as bad as the original rules where it was just a "keep rolling until you roll a 1"... It would keep firing until you ran out of targets or failed to hit or wound... 2nd edition was insane (the first rules I have up there) where you could put 2 of them on a Dreadnought... Now, they are still priced at a huge premium, one of the most expensive weapons, but Str 6, AP 4 unless it Rends... 4 shots... "Eh" is the best thing I think I can say about it. Not strong enough to do much against anything but the lightest Vehicles, not enough to deny 3+ Armor saves in general... Not AAA... So, really looking at it as someone who is good at math and actually plays the game this is just something that makes no sense whatever. Seem that they are costing it in that it has the potential to do 4 wounds at AP 2 to "whatever"... But that's a LOT of 6's to roll. Just not happening.
And of course the "meta" or design philosophy we are more or less forced into with this edition. Scoring units only really, and the Armies with strong Scoring options have a much easier time these days. IG, GK and Necrons are all really easy to field these days... The armies with the ability to make things Scoring like DA or Marines/Chaos are also pretty good, if more limited with the choices being made for the player if they choose the options... I guess these days when I am building an army, if it is NOT scoring, I have to have a REALLY good reason to bring it at all before I seriously consider them... Liking my BA with lots of choices as "Troops", but with all of the "can never score" ones really they are a bit worse off than most other Armies... But Jump Infantry is pretty good as a Scoring option, at least locally... Eh, too tired right now to go further, but something to expand on I think...
Kind of brings me to where I am with the game itself. Maybe we have been playing the Forgeworld stuff for long enough that we have a bit more available to us WRT Fliers and defense against them... The Hyperion missile turrets are cheap and REALLY powerful... Not as powerful I think as the Fliers themselves are, or at least the Fliers we see on the table... Vendettas, Heldrakes,Necrons the occasional Storm Raven and... Yeah, that's pretty much it. The ones that have come out in the 6th Ed other than the Heldrake are pretty expensive and weak overall... So, probably what was intended and well balanced. Problem is that the ones that are coming up from the 5th edition are simply too powerful and cheap in comparison. Maybe they'll update this all in the upcoming "Flier Compendium" coming up next week, but being the cynic I am, I suspect it will simply be reprinted rules and nothing at all new.. No points adjustments, as GW is loathe to make changes on the fly, even to save their own cash cow game... To a point I can see that as some games I have played in the past had the feel of perpetual "beta" as the developers kept making changes on the fly, FAQs became the rulebook, and that probably killed the system... But I think that not making changes and NOT admitting that there might be a problem will kill this game.
I have to wonder if the developers and play testers are playing the same game we are really... I know in typical English fashion, GW holds "competitive play" in a great deal of disdain... (yes, I'm mostly Scottish... Some English, Irish, etc., but mostly Highlander :-) )... A lot of things do not really make sense... Assault Cannons being the one that sticks out to me at the moment assembling Deathwing... At one time, it WAS the single most powerful weapon in the game. 3 follow fire dice, Str 8, -5 save modifier and d12 wounds per hit? Not as bad as the original rules where it was just a "keep rolling until you roll a 1"... It would keep firing until you ran out of targets or failed to hit or wound... 2nd edition was insane (the first rules I have up there) where you could put 2 of them on a Dreadnought... Now, they are still priced at a huge premium, one of the most expensive weapons, but Str 6, AP 4 unless it Rends... 4 shots... "Eh" is the best thing I think I can say about it. Not strong enough to do much against anything but the lightest Vehicles, not enough to deny 3+ Armor saves in general... Not AAA... So, really looking at it as someone who is good at math and actually plays the game this is just something that makes no sense whatever. Seem that they are costing it in that it has the potential to do 4 wounds at AP 2 to "whatever"... But that's a LOT of 6's to roll. Just not happening.
And of course the "meta" or design philosophy we are more or less forced into with this edition. Scoring units only really, and the Armies with strong Scoring options have a much easier time these days. IG, GK and Necrons are all really easy to field these days... The armies with the ability to make things Scoring like DA or Marines/Chaos are also pretty good, if more limited with the choices being made for the player if they choose the options... I guess these days when I am building an army, if it is NOT scoring, I have to have a REALLY good reason to bring it at all before I seriously consider them... Liking my BA with lots of choices as "Troops", but with all of the "can never score" ones really they are a bit worse off than most other Armies... But Jump Infantry is pretty good as a Scoring option, at least locally... Eh, too tired right now to go further, but something to expand on I think...
Tuesday, February 5, 2013
1850 Deathwing vs Chaos (Khorne)
Well, the League Organizer wound up working late so we just played a "skirmish" League match... So, 1850 but not for flags on the campaign map... I wound up playing Joe L's Chaos Marines... Mission was Kill Points. From memory he fielded:
Chaos Lord (jump pack, Daemon Weapon of some sort, MoK)
Jump troops, ~10 with a few Melta Guns
3 Squads of Khorne Marines, Champion in each, Power Sword, Plasma, Melta? 2 in Rhinos
Heldrake
Daemon Allies:
Blood Thirster
10 Blood Letters w/ icon
I brought:
Belial (SB/Sword)
Deathwing (10, CML, H Flamer, 4 TH/SS)
Deathwing (10, 2 CML, 4 TH/SS)
Tac Squad (ML w/ Flak)
LRC
Techmarine w/Power Field
Command Squad w/Banner of Devastation
Ravenwing Squadron w/Attack Bike (MM)
2 Hyperion ML turrets
I got first turn, deployed the LRC w/ Banner front and center, with the TM and Command Squad embarked. The Ravenwing flanked the tank, and Scout moved to cover the front. The Attack Bike moved to my Right flank to deal with the single Rhino full of Khorne hate... Realized the Scout move is 12", so a bit more flexibility... Basically, the Bolters (Hurricane and Bike) opened up on the Jump Troops at 24" range... The Lord survived along with a few of his lads... But most of them disappeared in a fine red mist. The Attack bike zoomed up, got a penetrating hit on the Rhino and following that with a 1 for the Damage result... Did that a lot :-)
His turn one was mostly just killing my Ravenwing... Lord and remaining Jumpers offed my bikers, the Rhino dismounted the passengers who shot the Attack Bike off the board... Not bad, but it left a lot of his Infantry out in the open for my next turn. Speaking of which, Belial deployed with the CML/HF squad and they set themselves down perfectly to split fire. The flamer caught pretty much the whole Berserker squad who dismounted to shoot up my bikes, Storm Bolters went there as well... CML went into the Lord and single remaining Jumper. LRC and Tac Squad shot up the Blood Thirster and my second Deathwing dropped to the middle of the field to throw a few missiles out there, but really just set up a second big, heavy Squad... Basically, the Tac Squad shot their Salvo Bolters at the Thirster, it failed it's Grounding test. Then the LRC and Deathwing unloaded on it... It had one wound remaining at the end of that as the AAA did Jack AND Shit. So, the "Roll lots of dice, looking for 6's" for the Flier...
Turn 3 was fairly brief as his Thirster died to overwatch fire trying to Assault Belial's Squad. Belial and his Lord faced off and the Fleshbane combined with the Preferred Enemy for me was just too good... Helped a LOT that his Lord only had Powered Armor, so the 4++ save was the best he had... And of course, having had to weather a LOT of fire getting there so I think he only had one Wound at that point... But 2 VP on that Challenge as Belial's Warlord Trait actually paid off. His Drake finally showed up, I shot it twice with AAA stripping a Hull Point, and I think in 4 I hit it a few more times, but removed the weapon forcing it to Reserves... Pretty
So, AA did it's job I guess, but it was a LOT more that I had primarily Terminator armor on the field. The fly by attacks are not an issue, he didn't really have an answer for the Raider and the Flamer being AP 3 is not so scary with 2+ everywhere... Have to say the Banner combo is absolutely amazing locally... I may have to bring in a Librarian with an Auspex to remove a bit of cover for the Salvo to hit...
Next week is the 750 point mini game followed by the separate table for the Tunnel game... Not so sure what will happen, but looking at another 11 model army, but Deep Striking in exactly where I want should mean I get there first...
Chaos Lord (jump pack, Daemon Weapon of some sort, MoK)
Jump troops, ~10 with a few Melta Guns
3 Squads of Khorne Marines, Champion in each, Power Sword, Plasma, Melta? 2 in Rhinos
Heldrake
Daemon Allies:
Blood Thirster
10 Blood Letters w/ icon
I brought:
Belial (SB/Sword)
Deathwing (10, CML, H Flamer, 4 TH/SS)
Deathwing (10, 2 CML, 4 TH/SS)
Tac Squad (ML w/ Flak)
LRC
Techmarine w/Power Field
Command Squad w/Banner of Devastation
Ravenwing Squadron w/Attack Bike (MM)
2 Hyperion ML turrets
I got first turn, deployed the LRC w/ Banner front and center, with the TM and Command Squad embarked. The Ravenwing flanked the tank, and Scout moved to cover the front. The Attack Bike moved to my Right flank to deal with the single Rhino full of Khorne hate... Realized the Scout move is 12", so a bit more flexibility... Basically, the Bolters (Hurricane and Bike) opened up on the Jump Troops at 24" range... The Lord survived along with a few of his lads... But most of them disappeared in a fine red mist. The Attack bike zoomed up, got a penetrating hit on the Rhino and following that with a 1 for the Damage result... Did that a lot :-)
His turn one was mostly just killing my Ravenwing... Lord and remaining Jumpers offed my bikers, the Rhino dismounted the passengers who shot the Attack Bike off the board... Not bad, but it left a lot of his Infantry out in the open for my next turn. Speaking of which, Belial deployed with the CML/HF squad and they set themselves down perfectly to split fire. The flamer caught pretty much the whole Berserker squad who dismounted to shoot up my bikes, Storm Bolters went there as well... CML went into the Lord and single remaining Jumper. LRC and Tac Squad shot up the Blood Thirster and my second Deathwing dropped to the middle of the field to throw a few missiles out there, but really just set up a second big, heavy Squad... Basically, the Tac Squad shot their Salvo Bolters at the Thirster, it failed it's Grounding test. Then the LRC and Deathwing unloaded on it... It had one wound remaining at the end of that as the AAA did Jack AND Shit. So, the "Roll lots of dice, looking for 6's" for the Flier...
Turn 3 was fairly brief as his Thirster died to overwatch fire trying to Assault Belial's Squad. Belial and his Lord faced off and the Fleshbane combined with the Preferred Enemy for me was just too good... Helped a LOT that his Lord only had Powered Armor, so the 4++ save was the best he had... And of course, having had to weather a LOT of fire getting there so I think he only had one Wound at that point... But 2 VP on that Challenge as Belial's Warlord Trait actually paid off. His Drake finally showed up, I shot it twice with AAA stripping a Hull Point, and I think in 4 I hit it a few more times, but removed the weapon forcing it to Reserves... Pretty
So, AA did it's job I guess, but it was a LOT more that I had primarily Terminator armor on the field. The fly by attacks are not an issue, he didn't really have an answer for the Raider and the Flamer being AP 3 is not so scary with 2+ everywhere... Have to say the Banner combo is absolutely amazing locally... I may have to bring in a Librarian with an Auspex to remove a bit of cover for the Salvo to hit...
Next week is the 750 point mini game followed by the separate table for the Tunnel game... Not so sure what will happen, but looking at another 11 model army, but Deep Striking in exactly where I want should mean I get there first...
Saturday, February 2, 2013
Painting projects, fliers, campaigns and contests :-)
On contests, I wound up winning the Wolf Scout and Samurai from Muninn's Brush ... Probably not telling my wife :-) She feels that the hobby area of the basement is really too crowded now... But to be fair, my hobbies include ancient weapons, old firearms AND miniatures... Right now restoring several old rifles (1890's Krag-Jorgenson rifle, US issue during the Spanish American war one of them), getting things ready for my "Klingon Wall" in the basement when I get around to finishing it... Thanks for the Scout!
Finishing up my Consecrators (Dark Angels)... Not a lot changed for me, NOT a complete repaint, so just the few new pieces to be painted and touched up... Basically I need to piece together the few new pieces like a banner bearer/command squad. As it happens, I have 40 or so ancient Powered Armor Marines that haven't seen the field for 3 editions in that army :-)... Now, they're not too bad overall just have one major problem...
The Chaos Heldrake... Purpose built to kill PA troopers, so being out in the open or even in cover means nothing at all... Looking like I will be fielding some Rhinos for the AA missiles to get launched out of for a bit at least... Need to break out some more of the hulls from deep storage and paint them up I guess... Until then, more Terminator suits hit the field for me given the sheer number of these bloody things prowling locally at least... It's clearly viewed by many as being under costed as I regularly see 2 of them across the table, usually with a third flier in a Vendetta. While I like the Ally rules in general, this is where it gets a bit tiresome... Seeing the exact same cookie cutter "ally groups" for a lot of folks. It's a bit boring seeing the exact same under costed things all over the place. Oh look, another IG ally with cheap Vets for the BS 4 and cheap Special Weapons fired out of the Chimera and/or a blob led by a Marine for ATSKNF/Stubborn/Fearless... How original. And a Vendetta or three AND Rambo? Yeah, didn't see that coming :-)... Not sure how I am feeling about the upcoming Flier book. On one hand I am hoping they actually bring up the points for the 5th ed fliers that are clearly not costed on the same paradigm as the current ones. I mean comparing the DA "dog-fighter" in the Nephilim to the IG Vendetta... Yes, the DA does have a special rule that might in some circumstances actually bring down enemy fighters... With it's ONE TL Las Cannon. Or the IG can just shoot it down with it's THREE TL Las Cannons. Oh, and the DA flier that is inferior in almost every respect costs 50+ points more... So, not sure why people would field that if they can just do the safe alternative in fielding a small IG Kampfgruppe with the clearly superior Vendetta... But like I said, it gets a bit boring seeing the same things over and over...
But back to the painting :-) Yes, my Wolves are moving closer to the fore... Praetorian IG are MUCH closer to complete. Liking the Minwax for the quick and really pretty nice coating it puts on the minis. So, I'll actually have a BUNCH of stuff fully painted ready to go. Sadly, my Wolves are not one of them. Being my first 40K army, I do think it is time for me to bring them up to a more modern and well painted standard... Just not so sure they are really playable in the current environment. :-) Kind of bringing me full circle, I got back into the game mid 5th edition using the "unusable" 3rd ed Codex and did really well. Think I will enjoy the challenge for a bit at least using the 5th ed Codex in the current environment... A bit at least, at this point I am not so sure they will be able to survive the Heldrakes... Guess we'll see what happens with the Flier expansion...
Finishing up my Consecrators (Dark Angels)... Not a lot changed for me, NOT a complete repaint, so just the few new pieces to be painted and touched up... Basically I need to piece together the few new pieces like a banner bearer/command squad. As it happens, I have 40 or so ancient Powered Armor Marines that haven't seen the field for 3 editions in that army :-)... Now, they're not too bad overall just have one major problem...
The Chaos Heldrake... Purpose built to kill PA troopers, so being out in the open or even in cover means nothing at all... Looking like I will be fielding some Rhinos for the AA missiles to get launched out of for a bit at least... Need to break out some more of the hulls from deep storage and paint them up I guess... Until then, more Terminator suits hit the field for me given the sheer number of these bloody things prowling locally at least... It's clearly viewed by many as being under costed as I regularly see 2 of them across the table, usually with a third flier in a Vendetta. While I like the Ally rules in general, this is where it gets a bit tiresome... Seeing the exact same cookie cutter "ally groups" for a lot of folks. It's a bit boring seeing the exact same under costed things all over the place. Oh look, another IG ally with cheap Vets for the BS 4 and cheap Special Weapons fired out of the Chimera and/or a blob led by a Marine for ATSKNF/Stubborn/Fearless... How original. And a Vendetta or three AND Rambo? Yeah, didn't see that coming :-)... Not sure how I am feeling about the upcoming Flier book. On one hand I am hoping they actually bring up the points for the 5th ed fliers that are clearly not costed on the same paradigm as the current ones. I mean comparing the DA "dog-fighter" in the Nephilim to the IG Vendetta... Yes, the DA does have a special rule that might in some circumstances actually bring down enemy fighters... With it's ONE TL Las Cannon. Or the IG can just shoot it down with it's THREE TL Las Cannons. Oh, and the DA flier that is inferior in almost every respect costs 50+ points more... So, not sure why people would field that if they can just do the safe alternative in fielding a small IG Kampfgruppe with the clearly superior Vendetta... But like I said, it gets a bit boring seeing the same things over and over...
But back to the painting :-) Yes, my Wolves are moving closer to the fore... Praetorian IG are MUCH closer to complete. Liking the Minwax for the quick and really pretty nice coating it puts on the minis. So, I'll actually have a BUNCH of stuff fully painted ready to go. Sadly, my Wolves are not one of them. Being my first 40K army, I do think it is time for me to bring them up to a more modern and well painted standard... Just not so sure they are really playable in the current environment. :-) Kind of bringing me full circle, I got back into the game mid 5th edition using the "unusable" 3rd ed Codex and did really well. Think I will enjoy the challenge for a bit at least using the 5th ed Codex in the current environment... A bit at least, at this point I am not so sure they will be able to survive the Heldrakes... Guess we'll see what happens with the Flier expansion...
Wednesday, January 30, 2013
1850 DA, next week...
So, reflecting on last weeks game I think that while making Deathwing and Ravenwing "Troops" is really nice, the 215 points Azrael costs was just way too much to not hit the table. Yes, I probably played wrong, so I am not totally discounting the usefulness of the Commander... But having Belial hit the table on turn 1/2 exactly where I want him to be? And then fighting for the bulk of the game, or at least until he dies :-) makes more sense to me. Still not 100% sure it is something that will be able to beat things like the Necron Air circus, or the local IG hordes... More specifically, the AV 14 tanks that are becoming popular locally... Drop in, get a side shot maybe, hope for Melta/Multi Melta to survive long enough to matter... Having Terminator armor is nice, but roll enough dice and 1's WILL come up. Looking at fewer than 30 bodies total for the army at 1850, so those will all hurt.
Looking at:
Belial
Deathwing Squad (10, 2 CML, several TH/SS, probably at least 4)
Deathwing Squad (5, Heavy Flamer, a few TH/SS)
Deathwing Command Squad (Banner of Devastation, Champion, Heavy Flamer)
LRC (NOT a dedicated Transport, but maybe?, Melta, dozer)
Techmarine (Servo, Power Field)
Tactical Squad (5, ML w/Flak)
Ravenwing Squadron (Attack Bike, MM, Melta in Squadron)
I'm NOT sold on using the DW Command Squad over just a regular one, or even dropping that particular aspect altogether. I'd probably swap out the LRC for a regular LR and hope to roll 6's when shooting at fliers I guess...
I am also kind of building it with the Campaign in mind. I am facing off against several Chaos forces, including my primary enemy. I forget my overall Warlord Trait, but in essence, I am hunting him... Good bonuses for holding territories next to his, and better ones for actually defeating him in a game... Since I just took a Hive City from him last turn, I'm set up fairly well for that. And I have a number of "Bastion" spots, giving me free Bastions in games there... Thinking my small Tac Squad foes there and fires Flak missiles, Heavy Bolters and Quad Gun/Las Cannon at fliers/reserves... Seeing Rambo, I mean "Marbo" a lot these days in IG forces, so having something to potentially shoot him out of existence is a REALLY nice thing for me... Getting out of paying the "Aegis Tax" for not bringing fliers... And since I have yet to actually declare an attack in the Campaign, seems likely someone will try to come and take one of my good spots from me. Plus side, no Planetstorm silliness attacking my Hive City as it incorporates a Shield Generator... I could I guess bring extra Heavies or the like, but really not all that impressed with my choices there.
Kind of riffing off of that, my choices of Fliers is extremely limited overall. Yes, I do have 1+ (the + is the extras I am building as Airships) for the Praetorians, I have a converted Valkyrie to stand in as a Storm Raven for my GK/BA forces... But, honestly feeling that my IG/GK forces would be overpowered and over represented in our local environment. My Fleshtearers are brutal. Not a lot of local players are REALLY prepared for the way I play them. Adding in a Raven to transport my DC DN and probably an Assault Squad? Not sure I'd play it if I were not playing a "I'm making a point" Army and just going out to be a complete dick and destroy the opposition as quickly as possible... So, no, not going to play that force I think... And the DA fliers just look craptastic on paper. NOT saying they needed to be "OMG BROKEN" level to have people play them, but really, 180 points for a very lackluster dog-fighter or 160 for a "ground attack" aircraft that is inferior in every way to the IG Valkyrie/Vendetta? Yes, the IG flier is TOO good, and I don't think they need to make all of them too good, but playing now, I do not often see an army across the table without one of them as an "ally"... Not the only reason to ally with IG of course, but I can erase blobs, even fearless ones easily enough, the filers are just a PITA... The current crop of fliers is overall "Eh"... The Chaos Heldrake is a bit over the top against Powered Armor armies not bringing Transports, but that can be dealt with I think... The DA/Marine fliers are just a bit confusing to me. Overpriced garbage. And limited in which flavor of Marine gets the bloody things? Not the strategy I would have taken as a business trying to sell more models, but...
Speaking of odd business decisions, rumor has a direct only "flier compendium" coming out in a few weeks. Now, I am no longer involved in a game store, but I REALLY would much prefer to purchase through my local store as that is where I play, and the owners are friends. Even without knowing them, the "buy where you play" thing is big for me. some other stores over the years where there was either no or limited play space or where some/all of our game group were "no longer welcome"... Well, then buying online was the way I'd go. If the rumors are correct, barring Dave getting a bunch of orders together and being able to get them in bulk from GW, does not seem that we CAN order through him. That does not even get me started on the whole releasing broken, silly rules and selling expensive "patches" later on like the liquid Green Stuff and "Finecast"... Once upon a time, they released updated online as freely downloadable PDF's... Wouldn't think that would have cost much at all, and would retain a fair number of customers. To say nothing of the ability to release say, an Eldar tank kit with the rules online so they do not have to wait for the next iteration of the Codex... :-) Not that this will happen again... But kind of frustrating as a player not having "legal" access to the rules for things like the last wave of fliers (Marine/Ork ones) without hunting down a back issue of their advertisement/magazine... :-) I guess I am missing the "good old days" a bit, maybe it will all work out...
Looking at:
Belial
Deathwing Squad (10, 2 CML, several TH/SS, probably at least 4)
Deathwing Squad (5, Heavy Flamer, a few TH/SS)
Deathwing Command Squad (Banner of Devastation, Champion, Heavy Flamer)
LRC (NOT a dedicated Transport, but maybe?, Melta, dozer)
Techmarine (Servo, Power Field)
Tactical Squad (5, ML w/Flak)
Ravenwing Squadron (Attack Bike, MM, Melta in Squadron)
I'm NOT sold on using the DW Command Squad over just a regular one, or even dropping that particular aspect altogether. I'd probably swap out the LRC for a regular LR and hope to roll 6's when shooting at fliers I guess...
I am also kind of building it with the Campaign in mind. I am facing off against several Chaos forces, including my primary enemy. I forget my overall Warlord Trait, but in essence, I am hunting him... Good bonuses for holding territories next to his, and better ones for actually defeating him in a game... Since I just took a Hive City from him last turn, I'm set up fairly well for that. And I have a number of "Bastion" spots, giving me free Bastions in games there... Thinking my small Tac Squad foes there and fires Flak missiles, Heavy Bolters and Quad Gun/Las Cannon at fliers/reserves... Seeing Rambo, I mean "Marbo" a lot these days in IG forces, so having something to potentially shoot him out of existence is a REALLY nice thing for me... Getting out of paying the "Aegis Tax" for not bringing fliers... And since I have yet to actually declare an attack in the Campaign, seems likely someone will try to come and take one of my good spots from me. Plus side, no Planetstorm silliness attacking my Hive City as it incorporates a Shield Generator... I could I guess bring extra Heavies or the like, but really not all that impressed with my choices there.
Kind of riffing off of that, my choices of Fliers is extremely limited overall. Yes, I do have 1+ (the + is the extras I am building as Airships) for the Praetorians, I have a converted Valkyrie to stand in as a Storm Raven for my GK/BA forces... But, honestly feeling that my IG/GK forces would be overpowered and over represented in our local environment. My Fleshtearers are brutal. Not a lot of local players are REALLY prepared for the way I play them. Adding in a Raven to transport my DC DN and probably an Assault Squad? Not sure I'd play it if I were not playing a "I'm making a point" Army and just going out to be a complete dick and destroy the opposition as quickly as possible... So, no, not going to play that force I think... And the DA fliers just look craptastic on paper. NOT saying they needed to be "OMG BROKEN" level to have people play them, but really, 180 points for a very lackluster dog-fighter or 160 for a "ground attack" aircraft that is inferior in every way to the IG Valkyrie/Vendetta? Yes, the IG flier is TOO good, and I don't think they need to make all of them too good, but playing now, I do not often see an army across the table without one of them as an "ally"... Not the only reason to ally with IG of course, but I can erase blobs, even fearless ones easily enough, the filers are just a PITA... The current crop of fliers is overall "Eh"... The Chaos Heldrake is a bit over the top against Powered Armor armies not bringing Transports, but that can be dealt with I think... The DA/Marine fliers are just a bit confusing to me. Overpriced garbage. And limited in which flavor of Marine gets the bloody things? Not the strategy I would have taken as a business trying to sell more models, but...
Speaking of odd business decisions, rumor has a direct only "flier compendium" coming out in a few weeks. Now, I am no longer involved in a game store, but I REALLY would much prefer to purchase through my local store as that is where I play, and the owners are friends. Even without knowing them, the "buy where you play" thing is big for me. some other stores over the years where there was either no or limited play space or where some/all of our game group were "no longer welcome"... Well, then buying online was the way I'd go. If the rumors are correct, barring Dave getting a bunch of orders together and being able to get them in bulk from GW, does not seem that we CAN order through him. That does not even get me started on the whole releasing broken, silly rules and selling expensive "patches" later on like the liquid Green Stuff and "Finecast"... Once upon a time, they released updated online as freely downloadable PDF's... Wouldn't think that would have cost much at all, and would retain a fair number of customers. To say nothing of the ability to release say, an Eldar tank kit with the rules online so they do not have to wait for the next iteration of the Codex... :-) Not that this will happen again... But kind of frustrating as a player not having "legal" access to the rules for things like the last wave of fliers (Marine/Ork ones) without hunting down a back issue of their advertisement/magazine... :-) I guess I am missing the "good old days" a bit, maybe it will all work out...
Tuesday, January 29, 2013
1850 DA AAR
So, played the "We Shoot Things" list last night against a pretty good Chaos force... Just going from memory, but this is approximately what he had:
Chaos Lord (Daemon weapon, Juggernaut, 4++ save of some sort, Mark of Khorne)
Chaos Lord (Daemon weapon/Black Mace?, Juggernaut, 4++ save of some sort, Mark of Khorne)
15 Cultists
15 Cultists
2 Predators (AC, 2x LC)
Vindicator
2 Heldrakes (bale flamers)
IG allies
CCS in Chimera (plasma/meltas)
Vet Squad in Chimera (plasma/2 Melta)
Manticore
Vendetta
So, lots of Fliers...
He had first turn and set up for an alpha strike... I seized. My bikes that had Scout moved up were in position and ended up winning me the game. The Attack bike caught the Manticore in the 12" "sweet spot" for the easy kill netting me "First Blood". The other bikes I had ran as Combat Squadrons so 2 groups of 3. Made my first big mistake when I did not just shoot the first Lord out of existence... I shot each at one Cultist Squad with the LRC pitching in to wipe the closest one off the table. I should have pushed the 48 TL Bolter shots all onto the one squad along with the TLAC/MM/etc... So, killed off all of one and almost all of the other Cultist squads, but I REALLY should have just focused in on the one to kill the Lord.
That brings me to me second big mistake... I rolled the LRC forward, leaving the Tactical Squads in their cover... They did move out some trying to keep up, but... In any case they got strung out and left behind by the uber-tank...
Brings me to the Drakes. So, they fly "near" something, a wing clipping it maybe, and it's d3+1 Str 7 AP3 hits. Movement phase, so absolutely NOTHING I as the defending player can do about it. Not a HtH attack, no opposed rolling, just automatic hits, take the damage and move on. Then of course there's the 360 degree Torrent Flamer hitting at Str 6 AP 3... Kind of makes Power Armor completely worthless. I was planning on running my Wolves at some point, but to be honest I think they'd just die. FAQ killed the Wolf Scouts completely as the Interceptor Quad Guns are not really as big an issue these days... Not bringing the Wolf Guard with them means just the 4+ Armor on the Scouts can strike behind the lines, and no Assault out of Reserve so "less useful" to "why bother"... Seeing a lot of folks getting more and more frustrated with the game, and the "slightly overpowered" flier armies in general... The now insane prices for the models is not helping, but the rules are really just lagging. Maybe in a few months it will even out, but it is NOT there right now...
With the DA, I am left feeling that it is Terminator Armor or nothing. Bikes are expensive and 3+ Armor, so they are looking like a "bring a Squadron" for the Bolters and Teleport Homers... But do not count on them living with all the things that ignore cover AND the 3+ save... OTOH, they do bring speed and a really good first strike ability to my force...
Far and away the "Death Star" I brought in the form of the LRC with the Command Squad/Banner of silly shooting/TechMarine w/ Power Field was the MVP for me... It DID take 2 hull points of damage over the course of the game, but I made a LOT of 4++ saves, and the TM has the 4+ to repair the vehicle instead of shooting and since he cannot shoot inside the vehicle... Not so sure it will be something I keep running, but to be honest I am pretty happy with it all things considered. 24" range only, so a bit limiting there... Any light Infantry caught by this should really just die though... So many shots hitting that even Heavy Infantry have to be careful... Thinking that next week I run this, maybe back to Belial and Terminators for the most part... Could be a really brutal "rush forward and hope for the best" army... 2 DW Squads, Belial, the LRC of silliness and a bike Squadron... NOT a lot of models, but might work...
Chaos Lord (Daemon weapon, Juggernaut, 4++ save of some sort, Mark of Khorne)
Chaos Lord (Daemon weapon/Black Mace?, Juggernaut, 4++ save of some sort, Mark of Khorne)
15 Cultists
15 Cultists
2 Predators (AC, 2x LC)
Vindicator
2 Heldrakes (bale flamers)
IG allies
CCS in Chimera (plasma/meltas)
Vet Squad in Chimera (plasma/2 Melta)
Manticore
Vendetta
So, lots of Fliers...
He had first turn and set up for an alpha strike... I seized. My bikes that had Scout moved up were in position and ended up winning me the game. The Attack bike caught the Manticore in the 12" "sweet spot" for the easy kill netting me "First Blood". The other bikes I had ran as Combat Squadrons so 2 groups of 3. Made my first big mistake when I did not just shoot the first Lord out of existence... I shot each at one Cultist Squad with the LRC pitching in to wipe the closest one off the table. I should have pushed the 48 TL Bolter shots all onto the one squad along with the TLAC/MM/etc... So, killed off all of one and almost all of the other Cultist squads, but I REALLY should have just focused in on the one to kill the Lord.
That brings me to me second big mistake... I rolled the LRC forward, leaving the Tactical Squads in their cover... They did move out some trying to keep up, but... In any case they got strung out and left behind by the uber-tank...
Brings me to the Drakes. So, they fly "near" something, a wing clipping it maybe, and it's d3+1 Str 7 AP3 hits. Movement phase, so absolutely NOTHING I as the defending player can do about it. Not a HtH attack, no opposed rolling, just automatic hits, take the damage and move on. Then of course there's the 360 degree Torrent Flamer hitting at Str 6 AP 3... Kind of makes Power Armor completely worthless. I was planning on running my Wolves at some point, but to be honest I think they'd just die. FAQ killed the Wolf Scouts completely as the Interceptor Quad Guns are not really as big an issue these days... Not bringing the Wolf Guard with them means just the 4+ Armor on the Scouts can strike behind the lines, and no Assault out of Reserve so "less useful" to "why bother"... Seeing a lot of folks getting more and more frustrated with the game, and the "slightly overpowered" flier armies in general... The now insane prices for the models is not helping, but the rules are really just lagging. Maybe in a few months it will even out, but it is NOT there right now...
With the DA, I am left feeling that it is Terminator Armor or nothing. Bikes are expensive and 3+ Armor, so they are looking like a "bring a Squadron" for the Bolters and Teleport Homers... But do not count on them living with all the things that ignore cover AND the 3+ save... OTOH, they do bring speed and a really good first strike ability to my force...
Far and away the "Death Star" I brought in the form of the LRC with the Command Squad/Banner of silly shooting/TechMarine w/ Power Field was the MVP for me... It DID take 2 hull points of damage over the course of the game, but I made a LOT of 4++ saves, and the TM has the 4+ to repair the vehicle instead of shooting and since he cannot shoot inside the vehicle... Not so sure it will be something I keep running, but to be honest I am pretty happy with it all things considered. 24" range only, so a bit limiting there... Any light Infantry caught by this should really just die though... So many shots hitting that even Heavy Infantry have to be careful... Thinking that next week I run this, maybe back to Belial and Terminators for the most part... Could be a really brutal "rush forward and hope for the best" army... 2 DW Squads, Belial, the LRC of silliness and a bike Squadron... NOT a lot of models, but might work...
Saturday, January 26, 2013
So, next week's Army... 1850 again...
Well, looking like nothing too bad on the rules questions I had... So looking like this will be what I am bringing:
Azrael
Command Squad (Banner of Devastation, Power Weapon maybe?)
Land Raider Crusader (MM)
Techmarine (Servo Harness, Power Field)
Deathwing Squad (10, 2 CML, 4 TH/SS?)
Tac Squad (10, ML w/ Flak, Flamer)
Tac Squad (10, ML w/Flak, Flamer)
Ravenwing Squadron (6 bikes, Attack Bike w/MM, Melta Gun)
Leaves me a few more points, and it is going to be a very "unsubtle" force... Techmarine gives me a 3+ cover save to park some of the lads in... Probably a Flak team, though maybe the Terminators against some forces... Terminators can DW Assault in on one of the many Teleport Homers I have out there, or just hole up and hold an objective. Everyone is a "Troop" selection, so I could potentially have 7 of them... A lot of them a bit weak, but... Plan is to park the Land Raider with Techmarine, Command Squad and probably Azrael in it at the front of my DZ... The Tactical Squads deploy around it, preventing Deep Strikers, and giving more Salvo Bolters... The Bikes Scout to the front to provide coverage there, and gaining the 4++ and making their Bolters Salvo as well...
Essentially, I have a metric crapton of Bolter fire, so it will be pretty deadly against Hordes... Most Marines will have a fairly hard time dealing with the sheer number of shots they can throw out... Fliers are going to be an issue, but can't be helped I think. Just kill off everything else...
Azrael
Command Squad (Banner of Devastation, Power Weapon maybe?)
Land Raider Crusader (MM)
Techmarine (Servo Harness, Power Field)
Deathwing Squad (10, 2 CML, 4 TH/SS?)
Tac Squad (10, ML w/ Flak, Flamer)
Tac Squad (10, ML w/Flak, Flamer)
Ravenwing Squadron (6 bikes, Attack Bike w/MM, Melta Gun)
Leaves me a few more points, and it is going to be a very "unsubtle" force... Techmarine gives me a 3+ cover save to park some of the lads in... Probably a Flak team, though maybe the Terminators against some forces... Terminators can DW Assault in on one of the many Teleport Homers I have out there, or just hole up and hold an objective. Everyone is a "Troop" selection, so I could potentially have 7 of them... A lot of them a bit weak, but... Plan is to park the Land Raider with Techmarine, Command Squad and probably Azrael in it at the front of my DZ... The Tactical Squads deploy around it, preventing Deep Strikers, and giving more Salvo Bolters... The Bikes Scout to the front to provide coverage there, and gaining the 4++ and making their Bolters Salvo as well...
Essentially, I have a metric crapton of Bolter fire, so it will be pretty deadly against Hordes... Most Marines will have a fairly hard time dealing with the sheer number of shots they can throw out... Fliers are going to be an issue, but can't be helped I think. Just kill off everything else...
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